17 - Before You Spend Another Dollar on Leads, Do This | Senja Spelman

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Selling in the Dwelling. I'm your host, Alan Langer, and this is the GoTo Podcast for the in-home sales and remodeling world. And we've got another great guest coming up today. Two quick housekeeping notes. One, the podcast website is sellinginthedwelling.com, and I bring that up because I want everyone to go to the top right and click on the Ask Alan segment and send me a question. I've got a great question coming up from the Midwest later on. If you get your question read on during one of the episodes, you get a free selling in the dwelling t-shirt. So check that out. And also our title sponsor, our good friends at Paradigm Vendo. It's paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling. More on them coming up later. So I've got another marketing leads expert today. And this is a big topic. Uh, we've had a few on already, but it's really, you don't have leads, you don't have a company. And I'm going to introduce Senia Spellman to the show today. Sanya, how are you today?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Oh, I'm so excited to be here, Alan. To your point, I have been a selling in the dwelling viewer. And so it's so great to be on the other side of the camera. I'm honored to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Well, I am very excited to have you here. And Senia uh owns a company called Cisu Energy. Did I pronounce that right, Sisu?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Or is it like you got the Sisu? Sisu Synergy. Um I tell Synergy.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

No, no, I love it. The reason why I did it exactly as you and I were discussing before the show, without having marketing, you don't really have a business, and we all have to work symbiotically together. So it's coincides that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Well, I'm gonna get that's gonna be one of my first questions about the synergy between sales and marketing. But before we get that, I just want to tell the audience, you know, why you're here, why you're qualified. You've been doing this for years. You came from such companies as Tundra Land and Leaf Home and Bath Exteriors. You've done it all. And now you have uh Cisu Synergy. And I love Cisu because I was wondering what the heck does that mean? And then, of course, on your website, Cisu is Finnish for Relentless Drive. Why don't you explain how you came up with the name and why that?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, well, the one thing that I always have to do when I meet folks is I have to phonetically pronounce my name, right? Because if you would see where it's it's senja, right, but it's not, it's senya. And the reason why I have this really unique name is my mom wanted to pay an homage to my heritage, which is Finnish, explains the blonde hair and blue eyes. And so when I was younger and I would be doing hard things, my mom would say, Come on, Senya, sisou, sisu, meaning like get through it, no matter what it was, whether it's school or sports or any type of job that I was pursuing. So naturally, as I did developed my own business, I thought, what word makes the most sense to represent me and represent my drive that I take in business? And there is no equivocal word in any language in any capacity. So it just made sense. And plus a little nod to my initials there, Cisu Synergy, Senia Spelman, we're always on brand over here.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, I love that. That's a great story. And if funny, it's reminds me, it's not the same, but when my kids were growing up, I would always tell them, you know, that they would like, oh, I hurt my arm or this happened. I would have been like, just suck it up, suck it up. And it became, then it just became SIU. I would just say SIU. And so that became a term in the family. So and then when they got older and one of their siblings got hurt, they'll be like SIU, SIU. So it was like, suck it up, figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

We're right there.

unknown 3:39

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So little little synergy there uh as we play on some words. All right, so Sanya, let's get into this because I want to talk about a big topic. When I was in sales and I was in an organization that had almost 90 sales reps, and of course, you get sales reps that complain or they bitch about the leads all the time. All the leads suck, and you know, oh, this guy's getting better leads than me, and all that kind of stuff. But one thing I always wanted to, you know, I always thought was odd and interesting, and it kind of got me angry sometimes, is every time they showed the sales team what the next promotion was, what the next marketing thing was, they would all roll their eyes, oh, that's not gonna work, or why are they doing this? Or and it was always this disconnect. We didn't even know, like the marketing person was like in a different building 10 miles away, never met them, never came to the sales meeting. And it was always this why are we doing this thing? And I always thought, why don't we get the marketing guy in here to tell us this? So why don't you talk about the importance of the synergy, as your company name is, between sales and marketing and how that can be accomplished in an organization.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

I am so happy that we're talking about this topic because since I moved in the consulting space, this is a common occurrence that I witness for people that are facing barriers with hitting their revenue goals. It's because they don't have that communication open between all departments. In home improvement, there's the stereotypical marketing v sales, sales v installation, and you guys are causing problems for everyone. But basically, the the way that I look at marketing as an entity, it really is supporting the sales staff and helping them convert those appointments into sales, even before they're in the home. So when I'm looking at what type of promotions we should be running, I'm talking with the people that are with the customers every day, which is the sales team. So I'm meeting with the sales leaders saying, hey, have you been watching your CEROs or your Rillas or whatever type of recording that they're doing? And what are people commonly asking about? What are they concerned about? How do we remediate that within our messaging before we even get in the home? So that's not something that's their concern. And then when you get to the point of presenting the price, what type of discounts are people bringing up that they've noticed that they saw? What type of dollar amounts off? Because if people are willing to bring that up during the sales process, well, then it's resonating with them. They're seeing it in some capacity and they're remembering it, which is why they're calling us and ultimately booking an appointment. So I think the amazing diamond in a in the rough that a lot of marketing people don't realize is the amount of information and knowledge they can get from their sales folks because they're talking to the customer every single day. As maybe more we're just so disconnected from them. And the longer that we're in this space, we even start to use vernacular that the average person doesn't even know. I always laugh as marketers in the bathroom model space, we call it the wet space. You would say that to someone at the street, and they're like, whoa, I'm sorry, I'm married. Like, no, it's so you have to make sure that you're you have to make sure that you're speaking the language that the common person is is going to understand and also be attracting with promotions that the common person is going to be attracted to.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yeah. I remember you're bringing up some big memories for me. I remember, you know, I mo most people in my work for Renewal Bay Anderson, which has, you know, like an unbelievable marketing department, millions and millions of dollars they spend on marketing. And it's and it's like if you're in a home and you haven't received a renewal flyer, you haven't been looking because they're just everywhere. But I remember all of the flyers, at least when I was there, were always touting the 12-month interest, no interest payment. That was it, 12 month, 12 month. And they're and their and their whole thing was it makes the phone ring, which I understood. But every time I got to the house, we were trained to talk about monthly payments. So there was a disconnect. We're getting in the house and we're talking about monthly payments, even though they may have called about the 12 month. And I always said, why don't we say, hey, get 10 windows for $199 a month? It's a card, car dealerships do it all the time. And we never, and the marketing team never did that because we never were able to talk to them. And I wonder if that would have happened. But in my mind, I was always running into well, I'm not talking about the 12-month, but that's why they called. So why are we being trained to talk about monthly payments when that's not the marketing? So that's what we want.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

I totally see that question. And what I would be curious about is doing a data-driven results type of A-B test, put one out to your point that gives the monthly payments as low as $175 a month for a house full of new windows versus no interest, no payments for 12 months and see what the response is. Yeah. Because I think it you bring up an interesting point, Ellen, that as different departments, we have different roles, but they have to be able to work cohesively. So for marketing, our entire goal is to disrupt, to attract, and to build excitement. And then it's the sales role to build trust, to build confidence and make people feel like they're getting a good deal. No one wants to be taken for advantage advantage or not get a fair price. So I don't know if those messages always run parallel to each other. I think sometimes there might be some perpendicular crossing over. But as long as you can find your way back, that you get that outcome that you want with the customer at the end of the day, that's the ultimate goal. So I think it really is like knowing in what round in what realm we want to operate in as a department.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, and and I always thought, you know, the synergy has to be there because if you work in silos, only bad things can come out of that. Like if no one knows what, you know, the old saying the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say, here's my issue with marketing people, not you, Sanya, personally.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

I won't take it personally.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

However, most marketing agencies that I've spoken to or have dealt with, their number one job is to get leads for their client, which is fine. That's what they're supposed to do. But they never, to me, I think they're falling short of their clients because if that company doesn't have a sales process to sell it or a way to convert that lead into an appointment, they're just handing over leads and they'll say, here you go, good luck. Don't blame me if it doesn't convert. And I think so many marketing companies go hands off once the lead is delivered. I think a really good marketing company is going to help that client say, okay, now we got leads, what's your sales process like? How are you converting? Because you know a bit better than anyone, if the client doesn't convert the leads, they're not blaming themselves, they're blaming them, blaming the marketing company. So how do you, as a marketer, because it sounds like with all the stuff I'm reading, you obviously have sales as a component or at least a thought process. What do you tell your clients like from we're gonna get you leads, but then it looks like you also figure out how to convert them, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Yeah, I mean, I even want to take that a step further, if I could, Alan, because to your point, if you generate leads, but you don't have a strong call center that knows how to nurture those leads and get them in the home, that's also gonna be a barrier. Like the lead is the infantile stage of what you're doing. Everything else down funnel has to be dialed in so that you can have that lead result in revenue so you have a good cost of marketing. So when I'm asking people, what is your goal? And they're saying, well, we need more leads, I ask, okay, why do you need more leads? Well, we need more appointments. Why do you need more appointments? Well, we need more revenue. Okay, well, what part of your system right now that you have isn't built to provide you more revenue? Because it's not just the leads. The lead is the least important part about it. You could get 10 leads and have a killer call center process, a killer sales team, and convert all 10 of those leads, as opposed to you could generate 100 leads, have these departments that don't know what the heck they're doing and not even get one through the funnel. So I would like to understand not only the sales perspective, but also the call center perspective and the installation perspective, quite frankly, because you can't outmarket a bad service that's always going to be able to be known, whether it's via words of mouth or online reviews or Reddit or social media, that your actual service is not what the marketing translates to. And I'm seeing that actually in a lot of big companies right now, some folks that I've assisted with or have reached out to me for help, that they're reaching the point now where they've gotten so big and their operations have fallen to the wayside that even if they have TV commercials airing every five minutes, they're still not getting the leads because people have an idea of who they are. So it's all connected.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Today, especially, if you're not, if that customer journey isn't solid gold from the time they pick up the phone to the time that that job is installed and even afterward, you're not gonna get a great review. And then that's what people are looking at. So if you've got a like you said, if you've got a bad reputation or or even uh an iffy reputation and they see your ad, they're like, oh, those are the people that, you know, my Aunt Mary's windows took 17 weeks to get in. I'm not calling them. And that's the I don't care what your ad says, you're not gonna get past that customer.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think that when you look at how a business is built and where they put their priorities, the folks that are really scaling quickly and maintaining their market share, they're investing in those functions of the business. They're investing in customer care, they're investing in ops, they're investing in nurturing the lead even post-sale, reaching out to folks, sending them care packages, things along those lines. They're taking it the extra step to have people really feel like, oh, I made the right choice by working with X company over Y company.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Absolutely. So, what do you think? So let's say you got a really forward-thinking company and they're going to have the sales and marketing teams meet, let's say, once a month so they can collaborate. What could a sales team offer to a marketing team that would be valuable for the campaigns coming up?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Well, I would say let's up that to once a week. When we were at Tinder, we had a weekly sales and marketing cadence meeting that we would go over every single source that the marketing team was running and we would look at each source through the funnel. So we would look at, let's say, Facebook, for example. We would say we generated a hundred Facebook leads, we set 40 of them, we demoed 20 of them, but we only sold two. Sales, do you know what happened? You look into these other 18 and give us some feedback of why these didn't close, because normally these are really high propensity closed leads. Then on the other side of the coin, we would say, hey, sales, we saw this direct mail campaign absolutely killed it through the funnel. We set 90% of the leads and 90 of them demoed and you close 55%. That's amazing. Can you shed some more light on what you think went really well about that? And we would go every single source every week. And not only would we share information of what's working and what's not with active sources, we would also be able to educate them on upcoming sources that we had. So in that way, the sales team really felt like, okay, marketing is supporting us by diversifying the marketing mix, getting more leads for us. We would show things like the creative for direct mail, the creative for TV, things that got people really, really excited about, oh, this messaging is going to be out here for our leads to build trust for us in sales. And we'd also talk about how much these leads are costing right now. Because quite frankly, I think sometimes it's easy for sales to lose sight of it costs $1,500 for us to get you in the home. So really think about the reps that you're putting out there. Are those the reps that are worth spending $1,500 an appointment on? And that really changed your perspective too. So I think transparency on a weekly cadence is ideal and really helps both departments.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Uh yeah, I mean, that's such an amazing piece of advice for for the folks that are listening. Because I'm just thinking putting myself back when I was selling, if we did that, those would have been amazing meetings because I would have been able to voice my opinions about why I thought, well, this is a good piece of marketing. Why aren't we doing this? And and now if I've got a marketing person answering that question and me helping them, that would have been tremendous. And you and the other thing is you feel more like a team. You don't feel like you're separate.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Marketing is customer-facing, marketing is a human experience. Anyone can contribute to marketing because it really is psychology, sociology, how we interact with each other. What I will say is I've always been of the mindset, trust but verify. I'm willing to try anything once. And then if the data makes sense for us to continue, let's continue. But we don't make any decisions to continue something based off of gut feeling if the data is telling us, hey, it's not working. Sometimes that can be a bummer, but truth that the Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Let me tell you a quick funny story. This was this was probably four years ago or so. I was on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn a lot, as you know, and I saw that this CEO or this principal of a large marketing firm, I think they were in Texas somewhere, maybe Dallas, she was having an all-day webinar. Sign up for the webinar. We've got all these great speakers, blah, blah. So I looked at all the topics and it was marketing market, which is fine. So I decided to be proactive and I sent her an email. I said, Hey, can I do a sales thing about how you sell the leads that you're getting your clients? You know what her response was? One sentence. And she wrote this exact quote Why the heck would I want a salesperson during a marketing seminar? Question mark. That was her response. No, thank you. No, that was it. So I responded very professionally and I said, Well, you've got all these clients, and if they don't know how to sell them, they're wasting money. And I talked her into it. So I actually named, so I was the only salesperson on the in the in the call and I named my talk. Why the heck is there a sales guy in a marketing conference?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

I love it. That was a little callback there. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

It was fun, and and it turned out she she called me uh about a week after and she said, Yours was the most watched of all of the 10 we had. So it's definitely a thing I think that marketers are thinking about, but maybe don't know what to do as far as combining getting the sales as part of what they're doing as their package. So hey dwellers, quick break. Hey, did you know that the closing percentages for in-home sales has been dropping consistently over the last 10 years? It's really crazy, and there's a lot of reasons for it. But one of them is reps have so much to do in the house because there's so many different platforms that you're jumping back and forth all the time. Well, my title sponsor, Paradigm Vendo, takes care of that. In one digital platform, you can go from initial appointment right to final sale and signatures by visiting just their platform. It's amazing. You gotta check them out. It's paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling. P-A-R-A-D-I-G-M Vendo.com forward slash dwelling because your reps need to give the homeowners a great experience in the house and jumping around doesn't do that. Visit paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling and take care of the experience your reps are giving in the house. Hey sales professionals, are you proud of your profession? Are you proud of being in sales? Well, you know what? You really should be, and it's time to start showing it. And that's why I created my new merchandise shop, the sevensecretshop.net. It's the the number seven secret shop.net, and there you can find great hats, t-shirts, beanies, water bottles, phone covers, all kinds of really fun merchandise with great sayings like I love sales or sales rocks, or even for your kids, my dad is a sales rock star, my mom is a sales superstar. Visit the sevensecretshop.net with the number seven, and you can pick out anything you want to show your love of what you do for a living. The sevensecrets shop.net, visit it today. Really great stuff. So let's talk about what, you know, specifically what you do. And you focus a lot on TV, right? And branding like storylines. So why don't you talk a little bit about that and how that can help companies increase their revenue?

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Well, one thing that I saw really consistently across the board as I worked with companies that were scaling 100% year over year on their revenue is they invested in the brand. There is so much noise in our space and home improvement. There's so much competition that people really don't know which company to go with when they're getting a call from four or five different contractors simultaneously from a modernized ad on these non-exclusive leads. And so if you're able to carve out a name and a story, it really does stand apart from all these other companies that are just throwing something out there and hoping that it sticks. And what I've noticed in our space, and what I think a lot of people are really feeling, is that there's a tremendous amount of distrust in our industry, whether it's major organizations closing overnight and leaving people with bathrooms or homes that are half finished and not knowing where to go next, or shoddy work from a contractor that's here today, gone tomorrow. There's so many different horror stories that people have when it comes to home improvement that being able to build trust proactively before you're in the home has tremendous value. And I'm not going to give anyone a pipe dream and saying that it is done overnight. It's not. It takes a lot of work, it takes consistency and it takes frequency and creativity, quite frankly. But when you can do it the right way, it tremendously lifts everything in your funnel. Not only does it lift, of course, the branded leads that you're going to generate through TV, but you also do a lot better in these non-exclusive competitive leads because think about it from a human perspective, you fill a format for Angie, and uh Angie gives out leads to three or four different contractors, and all these contractors are calling you or texting you. You're seeing the voicemails come up of Joe and Sons roofing and Smith roofing, and you're like, oh, what the heck? Who are these people? And then all of a sudden you see, let's let's say Home Genius Exteriors, a really great company that I think they do branding really well. You see Home Genius Exteriors on there and you say, oh, wait, I have seen this ad before. I've seen their company before. I've I've seen them on Facebook, I saw them on TV. This is a company that I recognize that I feel a little bit of trust with when it comes to them actually having longevity and doing what they're say they're gonna do. And that's the company that you end up being partial to. And yeah, you might give an opportunity to one or two other um small businesses, but if you have a company first that has brand in your home, that's probably the company you're gonna end up working with.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

I mean, brand is everything. Like I, you know, I think as a renewable by Anderson rep and the people that work for those big brands, they've spent so much money and time on branding. You're going in the house a step above everyone else because they're hopefully. Expecting a good experience, but they're also kind of price conditioned because they know, well, this brand is probably a little more, but they're worth it because I see them everywhere. And that's all it is. It doesn't mean that they're doing good work. You just see them everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Well, and I mean it could be obviously. No, no, of course. And well, this is I'm gonna say something that sounds like an insult, but it's a compliment, I promise. The Renewal by Anderson and Pelopoly and all those other worlds. I when when people that are marketing leaders for those companies tell me their funnel metrics or their stats or whatever, it's in one ear, out the other, because it is so much of a brand advantage, exactly like you said, that elevates all of these numbers. So they're saying to me, Oh, Sonia, you're setting this at 20%. We're setting it at 35%. I'm like, you're renewal by Anderson, of course you're at 35. Everyone knows you. And again, it's because they've done on the corporate level, they have done a tremendous job of building the brand and making it a household name. But I think that people really have to consider that as well when they start comparing numbers and exchanging ideas with people. It's something that I get quite a lot with my clients I do fractional CMO work for, where they'll say, Well, Senia, why aren't we setting this at 30%? I have a buddy that owns a jacuzzi dealer or a Kohler dealer in this area, and they're setting that. And like they have the name that they're able to advance. And you have nothing. No one knows who you are. And you can get there eventually, but it's not going to happen overnight.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

And I think a lot of that, we just had uh a couple episodes back, we had Tony Hody on, who's who's I think, yeah, Tony's a brilliant marketer, and he does a lot of unique things like 24-hour showrooms. And one of the one of the uh cool things he does, and it's just I mean, branding extraordinaire but and inexpensive. He has a little ice cream bike. Yeah. He has a bike with a big ice with a big ice cream with his branding on it, and he goes to festivals and he gives out ice cream, where the where his event people do. And it's just building the brand, building the brand, building goodwill. And eventually that just pays off, and you become, okay, we're gonna have renewal over or pellow over. Let's have these guys over too. I saw their commercials and then and they look good. So branding is not something you do for a month and then stop. It's it's consistent, right? And so do you help with the branding with companies? And and if you do, what are some of the best things that you can talk about as far as to make your brand, I don't know, recognizable and trustable and all those things, if trustable is even a word.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, I I do help with brand in all aspects, but what I really love to specialize in is TV. And I'll tell you why. TV is such a unique medium where you get to have so many senses be stimulated simultaneously. You get visual, you get audible, you also get sentimental, that heart feeling with being able to connect emotionally to different messages. And you have some of these different benefits with things like newspaper or direct mail, but you don't get all of them cohesively. And so when I was at Tundra Land, what I noticed is we had so many people calling us on our TV commercials. And yes, of course, we were on the air quite frequently where our spots aired multiple times a day. But what really got people was the messaging. We had storytelling, we had people being able to know the person on screen and feeling like they were creating that parasocial relationship, if you will. And they trusted them because of that continuous messaging and building of the human themselves and not just of the brand. And so right now, when I do TV commercials for folks, we do everything. We do the storyboarding, the scripting, the filming, the editing, and we buy the spots. But when we're doing the scripting and the storytelling, we really look at who are the customers that are in your space. And we do it in a unique way where pretty much we take three to four years of historical sales data, whatever we have access to from this company, we give it to a data analytics company, and they tell us not only who people are with their demographics, such as age, income, education, family makeup, but their psychographics. So what are their hobbies? What type of sports do they like? Where are they traveling to? What do they do during their leisure time? We take all of that information and we integrate it into the scripting. Some people can say, Oh, I relate to that. I I love being able to come home and shower and have a relaxing time after a long day of golf. Like that's me. And we put that into what we're doing. And it's worked out really well. All of our clients that we've uh been monitoring their analytics on Google, their website traffic uh month over month, we've seen like 200% growth from year prior, which has been wow. And we have some clients right now that we've been running their ads for like six months and they're already at a three-point lift in their closing rate. And so depending on the size of your revenue, a three-point lift can can be huge.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

It can be huge, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Exactly. And I always tell people like there is a period that you are gonna be a little scared and saying, was this worth it? I don't know. Should we pull the plug? And it's at like end of month to maybe month one and a half, where you're like, we're not getting calls, we're not seeing it. You just gotta let it marinate. You gotta be okay with taking that patience, taking that time and letting the story really build because then once it's going, it's going. Then that momentum is there, and then you're gonna be expanding your TV reach, like all my, frankly, all my clients have been so far. And then also being able to invest additionally in other stations and other opportunities for your brand.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

So I'm assuming now, let's say I'm gonna pretend I own a uh a small home or home improvement company. It doesn't have to be small. As soon as someone says TV advertising to me, I immediately think big bucks. I can't afford that. How do you overcome that type of uh obstacle? Because I'm sure most of these companies are thinking that way.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I'm I mean, I'm honest with people about the investment that they would have to make depending on their DMA. And DMA is basically just the read, for anyone watching, is basically just the region that they're in that gets a certain satellite uh signal. So what we do is we look at what the top spenders are buying in the space, because quite frankly, if you are only able to spend, let's say, like $500 a month and the top person is spending $30,000 a month, okay, well, then it's probably not gonna make sense for your company because you're not gonna get the frequency that you need. Like, let's be real. But we like to put you in the third spot in that list because you're still gonna get the frequency. And what we rely on is the messaging and the creative, being able to resonate that way. There's a ton of studies done that 70% of what people remember is actually the messaging, not the frequency. And I always give the example of ads during the Super Bowl. When you're done watching the Super Bowl, you see that ad one time because it cost $2 million to air. You're talking about it for weeks with your family. What was your favorite Super Bowl ad? You remember it because it's the creative, it's the strategy. And so by no means can you only show an ad once as a home improvement company and expecting to have a brand forever, but you don't have to have that same hammering every single day, every single minute of frequency to have the campaign work if you have a great strategy. So, what I say is it's not for everyone, but it is for the people that want to scale and really grow their brand and be able to have trust in their area. So I feel like the perfect folks for TV is if you are at that 10 to 12 million dollar mark right now in revenue, you never invested in it and you want to take it to that next level and be able to grow your business and build that trust. And you will be able to have that marketing dollars to be able to get you there if you are at that point and everything else is healthy.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Wow. How how important? So the messaging obviously is very important, but I would assume logos, colors, all of that consistency is it leads all into that branding, right? Because you can't have a beautiful television ad and then crappy looking trucks on the road and vice versa. So um, do you help with that or do you like at least find out what they're doing as far as that type of branding, like the physical stuff?

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, I mean, I'll look at every single touch point that they have within their organization and be able to say, hey, by the way, this is something that I would chase. What my company specializes in is the TV and the creative. Um, and that's just because there's so much that goes into it. There's so much involvement that we want it to be absolutely flawless. But yes, to your point, Alan, there's all these other areas that need to be addressed first. And quite frankly, most of the folks that work with us that are at that $10 to $12 million mark, they don't normally get there without having all of those branding touches.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah, right, right, right. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

So it's not really something that that we come across as much. But if anyone's watching this right now and they're thinking, okay, I have absolutely no brand, no identity, start with creating what that brand looks like in terms of the color scheme, in terms of the fonts that you use. Make sure, of course, that you have a logo that's memorable and transferable. And then start with everything that you own. I talked about this on the Tommy Mello podcast where we were mentioning the apparel, the trucks, the yard signs, the door hangers, all of those things, as long as you have them looking consistent with the colors, the fonts, and the logos, it's so much better to have something there rather than nothing and it's a wild, wild west.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

So oh yeah. I uh it's just it's crazy when you know a lot of these home improvement companies, I think a lot of you know companies in general, is like you don't know what you don't know. So you think you're doing everything right, and then you, you know, you find out, oh, I could do TV or wow, I should, you know, from the basic, my my my rep should have the same polo shirt in every appointment rather than just showing up in a in a button-down that they got out of their closet. So stuff like that. Like I joke, I think jingles are huge. Yeah. Like I when I want to do this podcast, I came up with the jingle for the podcast. And I'm finding my it's my own damn podcast, and I'm singing it like in the morning when I'm getting ready. It's like so. I think I'm hoping other people like, oh, it's singing the jingle, but jingles are are a big big deal too, and I think it that'll come across on television, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, but it's it's funny that you mentioned that. We've kind of gotten away from them as as a society, and I think that we need to bring them back. I had done a jingle for a company that I worked for internally like four years ago, and it was really catchy and people really liked it. I haven't done them since, and so you're kind of inspiring me to go back to like the good try to true methods.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah, I mean, and and it's been proven by a billion studies that music is one of the uh one of the biggest um effects of the brain, like for memory. Like you you remember songs, you remember concerts you went to, you remember jingles, like Barry Manlow was the king of jingles back in the day. That's how he started, and all of his jingles, he would like I I saw a I don't know, a YouTube thing or whatever it was, but the jingles that he sang back in the 70s, I still remember. Yeah, it's just because they were jingles. And there's even I'm a Yankee fan, I live in Rhode Island, but I grew up in New York, and there used to be a uh a company, PC Richard. I'm pretty sure they went bankrupt, but they had this little doo doo doo doo doo. That was the PC Richard jingle. And at Yankee Stadium, when someone struck out, they would play that jingle. And even today, years after they went bankrupt, they still play do do do do do. It's just in your brain.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, I mean, for all of our spots, we keep the background music consistent. So that's something that we have um throughout all of the companies that we have background music that's always playing the same melody for their spots. And then we do have sign-offs that we use consistently as well.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

One that I think um we'll see you out there, Minnesota. Let's make your backyard the place everyone wants to be. There's there's some like that that we have. So we do have the the consistency, and now maybe we can incorporate some music into that.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Let me know. I have a pretty good voice. So I can I can't.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, there we go. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Hey sellers, let me ask you something. Your sales rep walks into a home and pulls up a presentation. Is it dynamic? Is it interactive? Is it built to wow the customer, or is it simply another PDF from two years ago that looks like everybody else's? Here's the thing in today's in-home selling world, your presentation is part of the sale, and that's exactly why I want to tell you about our good friends over at Engage, the sponsor for the Ask Allen segment. See, Engage, which is I-N-G-A-G-E.io, is the industry's leading interactive sales presentation software built specifically for in-home sales teams. We're talking dynamic, engaging, professional presentations that make your reps look like the obvious choice the moment they open their iPads. And the results speak for themselves. So many companies are increased closing percentages, increased customer satisfaction scores. I can go on and on, but you need to check out Engage if you want to really create unbelievable presentations in the home. It's I N-G-A-G-E.io, engage.io, because your presentation is everything. Visit them today. All right, we're moving right along here, and it is time, Senya, for the Ask Allen segment of the podcast. Now, this one is an interesting one. It's a long question, but it comes from a gentleman in the Midwest. His name is Bob, but he actually writes in parentheses, not my real name. So what Bob writes is my executive director who is in charge of assigning leads is in the dark ages. She believes that leads are all hers, and once it is not a one-call close, that lead is no longer yours as the sales rep. We are stuck in the same 10-step sales process we have had since 2009. How can I help bring my company to the present and show her and everyone else that a one-call close is great, but people today, some of them are buying differently. I believe this will help us create raving fans and grow our company from the 10 to 12 million where it is now to where I think it should be at 20 to 30. Thanks. I love the podcast. Any help would be appreciated. So, big question. I know you're in the marketing space, but let me know what your thoughts on that are and answering Bob's question.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah, you know, Alan, as you're saying it out loud, I I realize there might be some potential there to know what are those people that aren't resonating with the one call close. It kind of inspired me when I was thinking about how we create our TV commercials when we take the data and we give it to an analytics company and they tell us who the person is. Maybe there are some consistencies or patterns that you can find from the people that don't want to buy from that one call close method. So if you're closing 25% of the leads, take that 75% that gets all the way down to the demo but didn't close, give them to a data analytics company and say, hey, are there any patterns here or anything that you're seeing consistently?

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Well, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Maybe proactively you might even be able to put them in a different sales funnel or a different sales model that fits to how they want to buy. Just that's me being uh idealistic. Maybe there's something there. And I love patterns, I love data. So that's my two cents. What I will say is from a marketing standpoint and nurturing and supporting the sales team in that space is no matter what, even if we don't sell the lead in the home, we should always be in communication with these folks that express interest in working with us in whatever capacity. And it doesn't have to be a high stakes, expensive campaign. It could be something as easy as an email campaign that gets sent out monthly that has educational content, that's something that they feel like, oh, we're providing value of how do you insulate your home for the winter, or what are the best methods to clean your bathroom? Things along those lines that fit to what they're looking for. And then also being able to stay in communication with them if you have the bandwidth for things like direct mail campaigns. Like maybe they weren't ready to buy right then and there, but the next month or a month later, you could send them a flash sale via direct mail, like for this amount of time only. So there's still value in those leads. And of course, this goes without saying, but putting them in a rehash call campaign to be able to reach back out to them and see what happened. But I know those aren't always the favorite of salespeople. But right now, people are looking for additional information. They're doing a little bit more research. And the best thing that you can do is stay in touch with them. But what I will say is the companies that I work for that are scaling very quickly and are very strong in their revenue and in their profitability, a lot of them are still using the one call close method and the 10-step sales process. So I don't know necessarily if if something is not broken, if I would fix it. But if you do have opportunity to get additional revenue by supporting the folks that don't respond to that in different ways, then it's worth chasing.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, and and and that's a great answer, Senia. And uh I when I look at this question, there's quite a few things I read between the lines. Uh, because obviously Bob didn't describe a lot of stuff, but there's two things. One, when he said the same 10-step sales process, obviously he's not a fan of the 10-step sales process. Now, here's what I would say to that you need a process, whether it's a seven-step, ten-step, five, whatever the process is, but you have to have your reps have the ability to be nimble within the process. They have to have emotional intelligence. You need to hire reps now that come in with very high emotional intelligence scores. You should actually do some some personality testing and see where they are on empathy and on emotional intelligence. Reps that have low emotional intelligence are not going to be good sales reps. They're going to be 20 to 25% closers because they can't be nimble. They can't work within the process when the customer throws something at them or it gives them a form of nonverbal signal or whatever it is. If they're not picking up on it, they're just going from step six to step seven without paying attention, that's a problem, and that's probably why they're not closing on the first call. Now, the other thing I would say is first call close is still the best close you can have. People buy with emotion, they buy when they're excited. It's a much lower percentage of people that buy after you leave. However, it can be done if it's done the right way. I know Ryan Shutt over at Allied Exteriors doesn't really is not is like he doesn't push one call close, but they close a lot on the second visit and they do the second visits virtually. So there's a way to do it if you have a process for it. But if you've got guys that are going in, trying to close, putting pressure on customers, then there's no way for you to contact that customer later on, you feel like, well, the company's taking the lead from me when I built all this rapport and relationship. So your company is doing a rehash program. I get why they're doing it, because there's money in rehash. However, make sure that when you're in the house, you're giving the customer the greatest experience you can give them without putting pressure on it, and you'll actually sell more doing that. And it and if it goes to rehash, it goes to rehash. And yes, there are people that are just not going to buy the first night. I don't care how good you are in the house, and the rehash person might get it. And then that opens up a whole nother can of worms is how bad is the reset rehash program. I've seen good rehash programs and I've seen terrible ones where they call up and say, hey, we can give you 20% more off than what the rep did, and now you're really killing your reputation. So there's a lot here with Bob, but I would say work on your emotional intelligence. You definitely should be in a one-call process. Do your best in the house and and have your boss listen to this podcast, especially this one.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

I love it. I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Well, uh, this is really good. So we talked about television, we talked about branding and all that stuff. Is there anything else that you would tell, you know, company? Like, I want to get more leads, and you know, I'm gonna call Senya. What would you what would you tell me? Like, what would that first call be like if if we were chatting about me upping my revenue?

SPEAKER_00 41:19

I mean, the first thing that I would ask is why you want to get more leads. And what I hear all the time is that people are saying, I want to get more leads because they're not doing enough with the leads that they're already generating. And that's where I like to dig into what's a great point. What's going on? Because the solution on it is always, oh, throw more money at paid lead providers, throw more money at paid social, and let's just hope that something happens with it. But you're not even calling enough on the cadence for the leads that you're already generating. You're not nurturing them in all these different ways. So I think that's where we need to start out with. And then if you're doing all those right things and you're getting there, well, then by all means, let's get creative and let's find out how we can reach more people or have your messaging strategy be a little bit more engaging so that more people connect with you with things that you're already doing. But that would be my challenge to you is like right now, if you are a lead with your business, fill out a web form, see what happens. How long does it take you to get a call? Are you only getting a call or are they talking to you via text message and via email too? Are you getting a call that says spam because you're not using a spam remediation system? And when you do get that call, do they leave it?

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Right, just like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah. Do they even leave a voicemail to let them know like what's happening? And when you do get the voicemail, listen to it. Are they saying, hello, this is Joe and Son's roofing? We had an inquiry.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

This is Joe and Son's roofing. We want to make sure that we get you on the schedule with this limited time promotion that we have. Like all of that is a part of the marketing and the lead experience. So my biggest thing that I say to everyone, I'm like, you do not really need me if you can get down the fundamentals. Now, if you don't know what the fundamentals are and you're losing sight on how to get that process, let's have a conversation. But really, the fundamentals is what's going to get you there.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah, and I think just, you know, another thing, like for websites, you mentioned lead forms and everything. So many, so many uh prospects and homeowners now are looking for pricing right up front as well. And and even AI is is prioritizing searches for websites that show some sort of price range. So, you know, I think the days of waiting three hours to plop a price down are disappearing very quickly because consumers are very smart. They're doing so much research now, and you got to have a lot of information. And then they're saying, okay, I've done all my research now, and now I'm gonna have these three companies come to my house and I'm gonna pick one of them. And you that's where the branding comes in, that's where the TV comes in, that's where everything comes in, and that's where your website comes, all of it. And if they're not having a good experience on that part of the journey, then they're not calling you and you're not getting in their house.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

So yeah, and I go back and forth all the time with presenting a price and not, and I know that you mentioned Ryan Shutt earlier. I know that's something that he's passionate about as well. And we've I I've spoken to him and some other people in the space that have different methodologies on it. What I always come back to is if you are price shopping and there's one company that will give you a price for Vatum online, this is a price, and then another one doesn't. If you want to truly price shop, you're going to book with the company that doesn't give you that price because you need to know what that is to make an informed decision. And then once they get you in the home, if they're a talented sales team, well then maybe you're buying right then and there, regardless of what that price is. So I don't know. I that's something that I am keeping my finger on the pulse with, though, in our space, because I think that it is changing. I think that AI is moving the needle to be more transparent when it comes to pricing. But how transparent? I don't know. I think we still have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah, and it's the argument I hear. Like, like I'm a big proponent of it, but I I hear the pushback is what you just said, or like, oh, well, if it's too expensive, we're not going to get the lead anyway. Yeah, well, maybe that's not a good lead then. If they're just looking for $300 windows and that's all they can afford.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

You know, and well, we'll have a good sales rep to convince them. Well, I'm not sure I want to convince someone who can't afford $1,000 windows to spend a thousand. So it it it it it is definitely a gray area, but it's a great conversation. So anyway, I don't want to get off topic here. Another day. Another podcast. So how do people get in touch with you if they need your help?

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yes, shoot me an email at Sanya S-E-N-J-A at CSU Synergy, S-I-S-U-Synergy.com. Otherwise, of course, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on there just like Alan is all the time, uh, posting content and getting things out. And then I'm also going to be speaking at a couple conferences upcoming. One is contact IO. So if anyone is interested in lead generation outbound dialing, that's a great one uh in Denver. I highly, highly recommend you guys looking out uh at that one and attending. And then I'll also be at uh qualified remodeler top 500 live this year speaking as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

So Oh, good for you. When is that in October?

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Yeah, October 26th through 28th, I believe. I can't release it yet, but I have a uh panel of amazing marketers that are leaders that I really, really respect in this space and also are my good friends that I kind of uh rallied some of my my favorite folks that we're gonna be talking about all things lead gen. So if anyone is uh considering going to Top 500 or not, I highly recommend because I think it's gonna be a really good event.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

I actually might make it there this year. I have not been out there, so I'm gonna I'm gonna get so if I'm out there, we will definitely have a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

So 100%.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Absolutely. Sanya, thank you for joining me today. It's been this has been awesome. I really appreciate you spending your time. And I want to thank everyone else for thanking uh joining us today, listening and watching the podcast. And this has been Selling in the Dwelling. Remember, our title sponsor is paradigmbendo.com forward slash dwelling, and the website is sellinginthedwelling.com. Send me a question, you can win a t shirt. That's it for us today, folks. See you next time on Selling in the Dwelling. Take care.

unknown 46:46

Selling in the Dwelling.