18 - Do You Look Like You're Worth the Price You're Charging? | Dan Antonelli

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Selling in the Dwelling, the go-to podcast for the in-home sales and remodeling world. I'm your host, Alan Langer of the Seven Secret Sales Academy. And just like all my previous episodes, another great guest coming up and Dan Antonelli from Kick Charge Creative, which is a huge, probably one of the best branding and marketing agencies in the in-home space. So we're going to bring Dan on in a second. And I'm really excited about my conversation coming up. But first, a couple of quick notes the website for the Selling in the Dwelling podcast is sellinginthedwelling.com. On that website, click on the Ask Alan button in the top right. Send me a question. If we use your question in an upcoming episode, you will get a free selling in the dwelling t-shirt. And we can't forget our friends at Paradigm Vendo. That is the title sponsor for the best software you can find in the in-home selling space. So let's get right into this. Dan Antonelli, thanks for joining me today on uh Selling in the Dwelling. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Thanks for having me on today, Alan.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

How are you doing? I'm doing good. So for the folks who are who are not uh watching and are listening, Dan is all about branding, and you got to see his office right now is all brand. He's yellow and black, and that's everything you can see. Even like the cups on his desk are yellow and black. So I love it. So I got so many things in my head to talk about, but we we we recently had on Stephanie Couch, who's a branding expert. But I think you might take this even a little further because you are not only, let's just tell people a little bit about your background. So you own Kick Charge Creative for about 30 years now. You've worked with over 3,000 home improvement contractors, a lot in the plumbing, electrical, you know, heating space, but you've done work with most of them. Two best-selling books on Amazon, the recent one called Branded, Not Blanded, which I love the title. And Dan just talks about the psych. I think what separates him is really the psychology of branding rather than just like throwing a bunch of shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. So, Dan, what kind of companies are going to you and what do you see out there that they need help with right out of the gate? I mean, talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the industry today.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

You know, for us, so many of the clients that we work with, they perform a great service. But if you were to judge them on what's being presented to the people that they're trying to attract, it's hard to get there. Right. So you look at their truck, you look at their website, and you don't necessarily believe just by those touch points that you're going to get an amazing job. But afterwards, maybe you hired them and you got this amazing job. And it's almost more surprising because you didn't initially think you might get that because maybe the brand doesn't communicate truly how professional and what a great job the company does. So those are the types of companies that typically reach out to us when they recognize and realize that the brand that they currently have now has stopped representing what they actually provide on a daily basis to their customers and they want that to match. They want the perception of this amazing experience that they provide to be driven by the visuals that are presented to the people they're trying to sell. So when that van is parked on their neighbor's driveway and the neighbor looks at it, they instinctively believe something about that experience. So we want to basically try to control what that perception is with brand. We want the neighbor to think, oh my God, they must be getting an amazing, an amazing kitchen where they must be getting a great job on that bathroom renovation, like whatever it is. And that's what that's what brand does, is it shapes what people feel about the company before they get a chance to interact with them. Of course, after you ring the doorbell and you go through the motions of your sales process, those things are also shaping perception. But ultimately, what we're trying to do is have the consumer believe something before that experience transpires. And secondly, the other part of it is what we're trying to do is we're trying to develop brands that are sticky, that lives in someone's mind so that they can recall that brand later on. So maybe it is parked on my neighbor's driveway, but I don't need a kitchen today. But you know what? I'm thinking about it in three months. And then I try to remember the name of that company that was I saw parked down the street. Can I remember it? Is there a reason why I might remember it? And that's why, you know, naming is such a big part of brand as well. So, like we deal a lot with that too, where companies don't have a great name, a name that's not sticky. And we do an awful lot of renaming for companies. I think this year we're already at probably over 50 home service companies that we've had to rename because it will just never be sticky for a consumer and never deliver a brand promise.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Well, and I think what you're you're talking about, there's so many things running through my head right now because, first of all, most of the people who have been listening know that I came from Renewal by Anderson. I spent almost 30 years selling in home, but 15 of those were with Renewable by Anderson. And you can't have a bigger or more recognizable brand than Anderson Windows. So the brand arrived to the door before we ever got there. And to me, I always thought like when when they when a customer said, I want Renewable by Anderson to come over, they were expecting a really professional experience. And if the rep didn't deliver that, now you're messing up the brand from the back end rather than like, and then what you're talking about is well, let's set up the brand to actually make sure that they're that's what they are expecting. They're expecting a good experience or expecting a good job. And then actually the sales team has to follow up on that and then the installers and everything, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah. And from your perspective, think about how much it easier it was for you to ring the doorbell and to have Mrs. Jones already know what the expectation might be like because she's heard of that brand. She equates it to be top of the line, top-tier windows. But if you were going there as Smith Windows, she's never heard of it. You've got to work to overcome that obstacle. You've got to work to overcome the objection that she doesn't know if it's going to be a good product. And you've got to sell her at that point. But the the brand name that you were repping had already done so much of that lift that it made it so much easier. So imagine the same thing for a contractor that before you ring the doorbell, before the CSR actually gets the phone call from Mrs. Jones, she already believes something about if she chose to hire you. And she's going to gather that information from multiple sources. It's not just the brand. She's going to look at reviews, she's going to look at all those things. But what can we do to have her think that we're as good as we actually are? And if I can, if I can get that perception shifted towards the positive and not neutral or negative, I have a much higher likelihood of closing that sale.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

That's amazing. I don't think many salespeople realize the power of branding prior to the appointment to set that up. Because you're right. I mean, if you've got a great brand with a great expectation of professionalism, of you know, I I really I recognize I know who they are. It's social proof. It's literally the concept, the psychological concept of we need to do something that other people like us have done. So therefore, wow, Anderson's been around for 115 years, they must be good. I'm gonna have them come over. Yeah. And I think it's so important that reps understand that the two things you said, if they if they have a recognizable brand to make sure they match those expectations of the homeowner. But if they don't, if it's a smaller company, they just started out and it's you know Big Jerry's windows, you got a lot of work to do to get in that house to overcome the expectations of who the hell is this company, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah. And the the other part of that too is the notion of, and and you know this, Alan, like the the idea that people want to do business with people they know, like, and trust.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Right? Right. So, how do we actually develop a brand that they do know, like, and trust? So every again, every impression that's being presented to them, they saw the truck on the neighbor's driveway, they saw a site sign, they saw a billboard, I saw one of the technicians or the workers in uniform somewhere else. I saw a couple of Facebook posts from the community Facebook group. All those touches are again, no like trust. I've seen them, I saw my neighbor use them, and it and it's helping. And then again, if it's something that they know, and how do we build something that they know? Well, you make it unique, you make it memorable, you make it sticky. That's the other piece of it. Because what we're trying to do is we're trying to avoid the idea that we have to get the lead for when someone types in roofing company near me. I would much rather someone type in the name of your company than roofing company near me because we all know how much it's going to cost us for that lead getting it that way. But if they know your name, well, it's going to be significantly easier to show up on the top of Google. It's going to be significantly less money to show up on the top of Google.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Like I said, I've been doing this a long time. I do a lot of consulting with a lot of different companies. And what I've seen is this everybody kind of looks the same. Like we've got a question coming up later, which is a great question in the roofing world. Any if I type in, like you just said, Dan, roofing companies near me, and I look at the first five companies that come up, I couldn't tell you the difference between them because all the websites look exactly the same. And I have a feeling it's because they're going with the web guy who's can do it for 3,000 bucks and he's using a template or she's using a template, and and they're and they're basing the website on SEO words. So it you cannot, when you read the website, you can tell this is written for SEO, not for like a human being to read. Right. Best roofing company in Saskatchewan, Washington. You know, it's just like these ridiculous sentences that are just there for SEO. What do you what would you say to a contractor who has that type of very generic, very boring, nondescript website, how do they change it? Like, do they have to hire a company like you, or is it something simple that they can maybe do on their own, or like what's the thought process behind that?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

So there's actually two points to your question, right? The first point is, and as it relates specifically to digital and and web design, like if you're a contractor right now, go on your website and look at the words on your own website, replace your name with the name of your biggest competitor. And now tell me if the website still makes sense. Right? So if it does still make sense, then what is actually different about your particular company in compared to your biggest competitor? Right. So what is the story? What makes us unique? How is the experience going to differ? And if all that leads to being exactly the same as our competitors, so then Mrs. Jones, she's gonna choose maybe based on price, maybe based on reviews. Like so we're we're sort of making us look the same. The other part of that particular question is if you go on Google and you type in roofing company logos and you get presented with 25 examples, and yours looks like one of them, then why on earth would Mrs. Jones ever recall your brand among a sea of sameness, right? So that's the other thing, too. So when we think about brands in terms of the notion of being disruptive, and that's what the book talks about, you know, not being blanded, right? So not blending into what everyone else is doing. So if you're you're in the roofing space and you've got a clip art, you know, triple peak logo on top of your name, you know, why am I remembering this? Like, you know, so you have to almost think about it from a different vantage point. Instead of thinking about how do I have a company logo that looks like a roofing company, try to think about how do I have a company logo that does not look like what all my competitors are doing, the exact same type of image, the exact type of brand. So, like you see that clip art look, you see the same hammer being used, and and again, it's just blending in with what that consumer has seen a thousand times before, and therefore it's not likely for them to remember it. Color also, you know, huge part also, you know, Alan is color. What are we doing with color to make our brand? Can we own the colors in our actual market? Um, you know, quick story of the company we rebranded called uh Munge Roofing out of Philadelphia that was uh owned by LB Capital or sold eventually by LB Capital. They started out at 1.5 million in revenue with a brand that just blended in. It was a 30-year-old company, but just blended in. And I said, you know what? I looked at the market, I saw that there was no one in the market. They're outside of like Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and I said, no one's using purple and apple green and orange. So I'm gonna put those three colors together and I'm gonna give you a new brand, a new mascot, and 24 months later, they were at 24 million in revenue, and then he exited.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

No kidding. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

So, like the idea of disruption was based on the fact of doing not the traditional clip art rooftop, having a mascot with a thumbs up, and then we came up with the tagline consider it done with muns. So I'm inferring a promise about how we're gonna get the job done right, making it sticky by that. And I would drive on Route 95 and I would see the billboards that I actually designed, which was kind of cool because I don't often get to see our work in person. But you'd see row after row of traditional billboards, and then you'd see this purple and apple green one. Well, now it's starting to stick in me because oh my God, that looks different. It's not like this generic clip art logo. And they crush it. Now listen, the other thing too is like branding will only fix a certain number of things. The ops that they ran to scale that company, amazing job that they that they did. But clearly the brand played a nice role in that because it was sticky, it was memorable, it was something that looked like, hey, I want these people out of my home because they look like they're going to do the right thing. And traditionally, you don't see roofing companies invest in branding. They they just don't. Right. Right. And they don't typically understand the relationship between brand and average tickets and booking rates and close rates and all the KPIs that you should really be honing in on. But imagine if you could just improve some of those KPIs by 5%. Like, what would that translate into revenue for you?

unknown 14:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

So kind of the way to think about it, like from that perspective. But, you know, everyone instinctively, as owners, you know, we think we should have a brand that they've seen everyone else do it. So that's what I'm supposed to do. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Like opposite, opposite. Like, don't do what everyone else is doing. Do the opposite so that we have a better chance of actually standing out.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

You know, I I've mentioned this on a podcast or two before, but I'm in Rhode Island. And by the way, I did grow up in New Jersey, and you're in New Jersey, right? Yes, yeah. What what part of New Jersey are you in?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Uh, we're in northwestern New Jersey, Warren County, Washington. Warren Jersey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

So I I I grew up in Son of Central Jersey in Monroe Township, but I I was in Vernon. But anyway, up in Rhode Island, I've been here about 20 years now. When I think of branding in the in the construction space or in the in the trade space, two, two, literally two companies immediately come to mind. There's a woman who owns a septic service, and all her trucks are bright pink. Now, that is such a disruption because you don't think of septic as a clean. Most trucks you see are disgusting and filthy. These are bright, pink, and clean all the time. So you think of her right away. And then the one the one area that I always think is so just completely saturated with sameness. I love that word sameness, is the landscaping industry. You see a landscaping truck, you have no idea what the company is. They all look exactly the same, the same trailers and everything, except for one. And they're called Warwick Landscaping slash tree service, but they have like a uh kind of an ugly lime green color. But it's so ugly, you remember it, and you remember well, if I I need to cut down a tree, first name comes to mind is Warwick Tree Service because of their color. And everybody else is the same. So what you're saying is like people listening to this, you really take Dan's message to heart because it it it could literally mean millions of dollars if you do this right. So, since you're in Rhode Island, are you familiar with gem plumbing heating? Absolutely. Yeah, I've used them because two reasons. One, you remember them. They're they're everywhere. They've got the I think they're blue and orange, that's what their colors are. But they also call you back. This industry, the bar is so low. Like, I'm excited. Just think about that for a second. They called me back. Like that, that's my like criteria. Yeah. It's like that's unbelievable to me.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah. So do you remember, do you remember what their old brand looks like looked like?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Not a clue.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

No. Exactly the point. Did you do them? Yes, we did that.

unknown 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Good job by you. Yeah. They were at, I think, close to 100 million in revenue when we rebranded them. They had white trucks with so much information on them. They had like three phone numbers and two taglines. It was, you know, and they knew it. Like they knew it was it wasn't good. Uh, so we really simplified it and we came up with the idea of using color in such a unique manner. So, like the way the truck wraps are done, the way the mark, like they were called gem. And I always thought it was crazy that we didn't do anything that looked like a gem. Like that, why connect the dots? Like, visually, let's do that. So, um, but again, they they they they blend it in. Like, and for a huge company, it's really surprising that they hadn't really invested in branding. But again, they were at that point knowing that it didn't represent who they had evolved into, even though they were at such a large scale. So, it also just a good good good illustration of never being too late to rebrand. Some people think, oh, well, I got to this amount of revenue, so it's too late. Like, I can't change my logo now. I'm already at 5 million or 10 million, and everybody knows me. And that whole mindset, too, is sometimes kind of funny because they think much more of their own brand than the people that they're selling to think of their own brand. So they don't use most of the people don't really know it as much as they think that they know it. So, but it's never too late. Like, even Tommy Mello, we did Tommy Mello's A1 garage, we rebranded Tommy when Tommy was at 30 million in revenue. And again, most guys at 30 million in revenue aren't going, oh man, this shit ain't working. Like, I I should change, right? Yeah, right. But he knew again, like the same thing, it didn't represent what they were actually delivering. And he knew that where he wanted to go, he couldn't get there with what he had. So it's definitely never too late to think about it, too.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

And I also think what really good branding does, it raises the expectation of the price. Like you expect, if you're branded well, you're professional. Like I knew when Jem called me back, because the other eight freaking plumbers didn't call me back or didn't pick up the phone. I'm like, this is gonna be expensive. I knew it because of their brand. But I knew I my expectation was gonna be a higher price, but I'm gonna get a good job. And that's exactly what it was. I got it, it was a higher price than I thought, but you know what? They got it done in three hours, and I'll pay for that every day of the week.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

And and that's a great point, too, Alan, because you think about when you're looking to attract the right type of customer, like you're their right type of customer. You're willing to pay a premium because you want quality service, you want them to show up, you want them to answer the phone. So all those criteria, yeah, I'm gonna, I know I'm gonna pay more than the one truck operator, but that's what I that's what I want to do. Like, I so people struggle sometimes with average tickets when they're like, I can't get paid enough for my work. And I'm like, bro, you don't look like you deserve to be paid when you're asking for your work. Exactly, right. So, like, solve that problem. Look as good as you actually are, and you'll have so much less resistance to raise your price because people will expect to pay a premium. You expected to pay a premium just because you saw their trucks and you had people answering the phone. So you already had established in your mind that there was a premium associated with hiring this company, and you were willing to pay it because you wanted to get what you wanted to get, right? So that's just kind of the same thing. When when people are like, oh my God, I can't, I can't get you know, this money for my roof, or I can't get people to pay me for this much for the kitchens, whatever, whatever it is. Sometimes, like, do you look like you need you deserve to be paid that way? It's perception, like perception is reality. Like, why do I want to buy a BMW when I can get a Toyota? Like they'll both get me to where I want to go, but one's gonna make me feel a certain way, and the other is is utilitarian, right? So, like again, brand transcends all that stuff. And and sometimes that's not logical. Like, you know, you could get a Rolex or you could get a Timex. They both tell time, right? Well, but why do I want to pay more for a Rolex? Well, because I believe that there's a premium that I'm willing to pay to get that, right? So it it's again, it's all consumer psychology. Like, none of this is like groundbreaking, but most people don't look at it in that context when it comes to branding for home service.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

I mean, sales is all psychological. I I do a lot with the psychology of pricing and your numbers. That's all psychic. People just think, oh, let me come up with the price on my algorithm and my and my you know and my margin chart. That's not how you come up with pricing. You come up with pricing with numbers that actually affect the brain and how they think about it. So just it's all psychological. When you actually, as a consumer, like I'm a consumer that that is willing, like you said, to pay a little extra, to get what I want, to get to get the the service that I want. But you're careful who you tell afterward because you realize the certain people out there, like I know that my one of my good friends, I'll tell him that I got Jem. He'd be like, Oh yeah, good job. But if I tell my other buddy at the coffee shop, he'd be like, What are you crazy? How much did that cost you? So that's not Jem's customer right there. Hey dwellers, quick break. Hey, did you know that the closing percentages for in home sales has been dropping considerably? Consistently over the last ten years. It's really crazy, and there's a lot of reasons for it. But one of them is reps have so much to do in the house because there's so many different platforms that you're jumping back and forth all the time. Well, my title sponsor, Paradigm Vendo, takes care of that. In one digital platform, you can go from initial appointment right to final sale and signatures by visiting just their platform. It's amazing. You gotta check them out. It's paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling, P-A-R-A-D-I-G-M Vendo.com forward slash dwelling because your reps need to give the homeowners a great experience in the house, and jumping around doesn't do that. Visit paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling and take care of the experience your reps are giving in the house. Hey, sales professionals, are you proud of your profession? Are you proud of being in sales? Well, you know what? You really should be, and it's time to start showing it. And that's why I created my new merchandise shop, the sevensecretshop.net. It's the the number sevensecretshop.net, and there you can find great hats, t-shirts, beanies, water bottles, phone covers, all kinds of really fun merchandise with great sayings like I love sales or sales rocks, or even for your kids, my dad is a sales rock star, my mom is a sales superstar. Visit the sevensecretshop.net with the number seven, and you can pick out anything you want to show your love of what you do for a living. The sevensecrets shop.net, visit it today. Let's talk about you you actually said your book, your your second book, which is an Amazon bestseller, came out in 2022, and then you just redid it. Uh you did a second edition. What things did you had, did you feel that you had to add to that book that was not in the first edition that you think would be helpful to the audience on today's podcast?

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, so after I did the first edition, one of the things I focused on was mainly the KPIs that are affected by brand. So I really wanted to dig deeper onto that particular topic. Like I knew instinctively, and we had a lot of data even prior to doing the second edition about the effect of rebrands on the metrics that matter most to contractors. But I wanted to really spend some time looking at some different case studies. For example, like we had a company that had worked with about 25 of our brands and in building their websites. And so I asked him, I said, can you compare the results of the 25 companies that use our brand, our brands that we designed, versus 25 companies that we did it? And just tell me what things stand out to you about that data set. So we looked at, we looked at conversion rates and we looked at branded keyword searches. So how many more times was someone typing in the name of a company that we had branded versus the name of a company that we hadn't branded? So looking at metrics like that, and that particular case study was blew my mind because on average, our brands were being searched 500 times a month versus 50 times a month for the companies that we hadn't on the brand. So that told us a lot about what was happening in terms of visibility within the community. Like how visible was that brand name then in the community and becoming memorable and sticky and being called out later for recall, which is a huge metric. Then and then the other notion was okay, so they came to the website now. What happened? How many converted into actual booked calls? Right? Another key metric. And on average, we were booking at, I think it was 12.5% versus 6% of the companies that we had that not done the brand for. So again, why is that happening? Again, and to me, it really just compounded the notion of no like and trust. So I've seen the van already, I saw it on the website, I've seen it on my neighbor's driveway. I know this company, therefore, I'm more likely to click book now or call now. For the other companies, maybe I've never seen their brand before. Maybe I've never heard of them before. I've never seen their truck before. Therefore, I don't have that same sense of trust. So that was just one of the metrics we looked at. And then the other ones that we really honed in on and did case studies on were the effects on average tickets, booking rates, and close rates. So I wanted to look at those numbers as well. Like I said earlier, like brand doesn't solve operational challenges. So these are companies that were performing well already, just didn't look like they were performing well. So I always want to try to make that clear because it's not the silver bullet that's gonna solve everything that's wrong with your company. It'll amplify everything that's wrong with your company.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

If you don't have a good installation team, good branding is not gonna fix that.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah. So, so, but even those numbers, again, to your point about perception, I I love the example you said earlier about having the windows and you showing up saying, I'm from this company and they already heard of you, right? So that is so different. And again, for these companies, looking at some of the average ticket increases post-rebrand, some of them were remarkable, like triple. Like, and you're like, wow, like how did they triple the average tickets? And I'm like, man, I mean, some of them had awful brands before. So it seemed much more logical as to why it was happening. But from an operational perspective, some of them really did not change any ops. And that's to me what's what's showing the validity of how much the brand was truly impacting those KPIs.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Unbelievable. Let me get your take on this, because this is something I'm I'm sort of sometimes I'm in my own camp on this, but you're mostly in the plumbing, heating, electrical space. But again, you've you've done windows, siding, roofing. In the non-service areas, like plumbing heating, you get service techs who have to act as salespeople, and they normally pull up in a truck or a van that's labeled or wrapped. In the world of windows and siding and roofing, usually windows and siding, you've got sales reps pulling up in their Toyota cameras or their, you know, their boring little you know, Kia Sole or whatever with nothing on it. And then they get out of the car and they're in a button-down shirt or maybe, maybe a branded polo. I realized, so I drive an FJ Cruiser, very distinct-looking truck. Love it. I've had it for 15 years. But when I was selling for Anderson, I pulled up in my truck, people would be like, answer the door, are you the Anderson guy? Like, had no idea who I was, even though I was in logo gear. So I decided to label my own truck. I wrapped it in my, I didn't wrap it, I had it, I had it labeled up, but I put my own phone number on it and it had the Anderson logo on it. And on the FJ, it looked really cool. And I'd pull up, and I'm I'm I'm telling you, eight out of ten times, people like, oh, that was an awesome truck because everybody's looking for you when you pull up. Right, right. Do you think in that in that industry, windows and siding specifically, that these companies should be labeling their reps cars or at least doing something, or at least getting them their own vehicles so they look so much more professional pulling up or at least following the brand? Do you think they should be doing that?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah, a thousand percent. I mean, every single roofing company or window and door company that we've done work for, everything is branded. Every single, every single touch point. You know, I we we did a roofing contractor out of Philly, and like they literally, the tarps are actually branded on all sides of the house. Like it's it's printed on like a you know 100 by you know 20 vinyl banner that they use as their tarp. Like imagine that as you're driving through the neighborhood. They also have a uh a tent set up at the front of the house where they keep their you know their waters and their lunch stuff. But literally they got flags up there. I mean, all this stuff that they're doing. And again, I think that that's the part where most guys miss on that because again, those impressions matter and how do we make the most? So I hate the idea of showing up in an unbranded truck. I hate the idea of even just slapping a magnet on it. To me, that screams fly by night. Like, oh my God, are these gonna be these guys gonna be around next year when something goes wrong? Like, those are all the legitimate questions people have, especially I'm buying a 30-year roof warranty. Well, if you guys are out of business next year, like who honors that? Like, am I screwed then? Like, and those are the things that consumers think about. So, again, that perception, it would be nice if you rolled up and they already knew obviously who you were, which would be super, super important. But then again, maybe they've seen that truck parked somewhere else. Maybe they saw it in the supermarket and it's familiar to them. Um, so there's a lot of value in that. I know some people don't want to, you know, make the investment in it or spend the money on it, but I I think that there's a lot of value in it. And and and honestly, let's look at the real cost. So, so let's just imagine it's $3,500 to wrap a pickup truck that the sales team is gonna go out on. It's a five-year life expectancy on that. So for $500 a year, like that's an area we're gonna cut corners on? Like it doesn't make any sense to that.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

That's a brilliant way to look at it. Yeah, because it's it's literally, you know, so many business owners think of investing in their companies as a cost rather than an investment.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

And and it's not a cost. When you look at it like that, $500 a year, and what what is one extra sale per week per rep in your company gonna equal? You're gonna make your $3,500 back in about two weeks. So it's not even, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

So it's and even if you look at the pure advertising value in terms of cost per impression. Yeah. So you tell me where you can have thousands of impressions on a weekly basis for ten dollars a week. Yeah. Right? Because it's $500 a year. So to tell me where else you're gonna buy that exposure for for such a cheap cost per impression. So yeah, it's definitely, I think, a smart investment. And again, too, think about it from this perspective. Imagine if they got two other estimates and none of those guys have anything branded again. So now who stands out? Who's memorable? Yeah, you know, so thinking about it from that perspective, I think is also helpful.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah. And I I even I even take it a step further and and talk to reps when I do my training about personal branding. And like, you know, everybody goes into a house and says they're the best. We're the best roofer, we've got the best install installation, we've won the most awards. Everybody says the same thing. The differentiator is the sales rep. Now, when you add on top of that, the branding that's been done prior to the rep getting there, that even compounds that and makes it easier for the customer to feel comfortable and to say yes. Because, like you said, if none of that lines up and you've got a Toyota Camry sitting outside and you're in a button-down shirt and you're telling me you're a great roofing company, why should I believe that when I've seen I've seen the other one all over the town?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

What I love about what you said too, about personal branding, and it's a thing that blows my mind sometimes. So, you know, I'm on Facebook and I get uh, you know, a ton of people sending me friend requests or requests to follow, and and then I go and I click on their name, and we're all in the same groups or the same blue-collar Facebook groups and things like that. But then I'll click on their profile and it'll say, no workplaces to show. And I think to myself, bro, how is it a bad thing that everyone in your friend circle would know that you were the owner of a home service company? Why would that ever be a bad thing? Because again, no like and trust, right? So, oh yeah, this is the guy. He owns the company. I went to high school with him. Like, whatever it is, like, why aren't we leveraging our personal brand even on like social media? Why? So you can post some bullshit about politics? Like you want to be able to do that? Like, I I want to get rich. Like, so yeah, I don't care about politics. I care about like how I can leverage my personal brand, right? So it's it's weird to me, but imagine that they were known on social media before they rang the doorbell. Oh, you're the guy that makes those videos about roofing that was showing like how to tell if the roofing is deteriorating, like whatever. Like, imagine that you were known for that and associated with the brand that you rep for before you rang the doorbell. How much easier is it gonna be to sell Mrs. Jones? Right? You know, the leveraging of this personal brand is a huge piece that a lot of contractors just, you know, oh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna make content, I don't want to be on video, I don't want to promote my own company. And it just it's weird to me. Yeah, because you'll get you'll get you'll get twice the exposure on your personal Facebook page than you ever will on your company Facebook because Facebook is gonna throttle the number of impressions coming from a business page versus your personal one.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Yeah, absolutely. And you and you're touching on a huge pet peeve of mine, because they'll take this one level deeper. Go from the owner of the company to the sales reps. I'll I'll do training and I'll have a I'll have a hundred sales reps in a room and I'll say, who here has Facebook or Instagram? Almost everybody, you know, all 100 raise their hand. Who here tells everyone on your social media what you do for a living? Maybe 20 raise their hand. And it's like they want to hide the fact that they sell wind great windows. I'm like, you should be posting before and after pictures on your personal page. You never know who's gonna see it. And it just boggles my mind that the reps and business owners don't think about this, and they're thinking about Google ads and getting the website correct, and the personal brand has completely forgotten. So you're touching on something that's a big that that's a big pet peeve of mine as well with sales reps.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah. Yeah, it's like I'd rather spend $550 on the LSA lead than just posting for free on my personal page.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Like, okay, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Knock yourself out.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Hey sellers, let me ask you something. Your best rep walks into a home and closes the job. Now picture everyone else on your sales team or anyone else in your company walking into that same home. Is it the same story, the same confidence? How about the same result? For most companies, the answer is no. And that's not a talent problem, it's actually a readiness problem. That's exactly why I want to tell you about our good friends over at Engage, I-N-G-A-G-E, the sponsor of the Ask Allen segment. Engage is the industry's leading interactive sales presentation software built exclusively for in-home sales teams. Dynamic, interactive presentations that make every rep look like the obvious choice the moment they open their iPad. And now they built a free sales readiness playbook that shows you where your team is ready and where the gaps are. It takes just a few minutes to complete. Take a trip over to salesplan.engage.io. That's salesplan one word.engage i-n-g-a-g-e dot io to check out the sales readiness playbook because your presentation is everything. All right, man. Well, this this is this has been great, and we're heading now to my favorite part of the website, which is the ask Allen segment. And uh, for the folks out there, if you heard the angel singing, that means we're coming up on the ask Allen segment. And this one is literally right in Dan's wheelhouse. This comes from a gentleman by the name of Tony in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Tony says, I am a roofing contractor who prides himself on honesty and integrity in a business that is anything but how do I differentiate myself from all the other chuck in the trucks out there and show homeowners it is so much better to do business with a professional roofer than the guy who's the fly by night pickup truck guy? Please help. I hope you have someone on that can answer this. Thanks for a great show. So that's Tony in Colorado Springs. So that there you go. There's your softball, Dan. How would you answer Tony's question?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

So Tony sounds like he's been in business for a while. And I would I would ask, what are we doing to leverage that experience and that history and that heritage that you have and that pride that you take in the workmanship that your company provides? How is that being communicated in your marketing channels? How is it being talked about in your social media strategy? How does the brand speak to those qualities that make you different? That's where I would hone in on, right? So making sure that there's a clear distinction both visually and what we say about our company from everyone else, and making sure that you follow through on everything that gets presented to Mrs. Jones at that time to speak to that. So by the way, Mrs. Jones, did you know that our our roofs include this, this, and this? And the reason why we do that is because this, this, and this. Most other companies probably aren't going to include that, but I want to stand behind my work. I've been serving this community for X number of years, and I really take pride in what we like. So you've got to really sell the differences. If it's this, hey, you know what? I sell certainty roofing materials and they're a 30-year warranty. Okay, well, so is everybody else. What is it? What is actually different, right? So just making sure that the brand speaks to what makes you unique, what you believe in as an owner is really important too. Imagine that before Tony got to the job, Mrs. Jones got a text with a video from that company talking about what their core values are and what he believes in as an owner. Say, you know what? I'm sending my lead technician over. He's going to take a look at the roof. Just want to let you know how grateful I am to serve you and your family. We've been in this community for over 30 years. My children went to this high school. You know, talk it up so that we establish a difference between the deliverable that she can expect to get from Tony versus ABC roofing.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Yeah. And I think just to touch on what we've already mentioned, it sounds like you may need some branding help, Tony. It sounds like you, you, you know, like you're right, Dan. It sounds like he's been in business for a while, but he might be just blending in with every other roofer. And when you do that, you become a commodity. And if you're a commodity, then and and then now they're just looking at pricing.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yeah. Here's the thing I will say about branding too, you know, Alan, like you look at the idea of branding, and most people look at branding purely from a marketing perspective, and they say, I want to rebrand because I'm trying to improve the effectiveness of my marketing. I'm trying to spend less on Google. So I want to have a better brand that people remember, all those things. And those are all great reasons to rebrand. But what people who go through the experience and then live what happens afterwards, what they realize is that it represents a significant shift in their own personal mindset because they become so re-engaged in the business, they're so excited about their future. They really are showing to the employees a commitment to investing into this company because we're trying to build a better future for everyone here. And you have that psychological aspect of how it actually affects the mindset of the owner who rebrands. Like it's wild to see, and we see it all the time. No one comes to me and says, Dan, I want to rebrand because I'm trying to improve my mindset. But they go through the experience, and that's exactly what happens. And I think I think it's an important thing to also just not discount because it will do all the other things related to marketing, but what will it do to you and how it's communicated to your employees is is super important. And I think you see so much renewed enthusiasm from everyone on the team because they know it's not static. We're not we're not settling for status quo. We're really looking to the future and we're trying to make a better company for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah, and I actually have a little experience. I did some some training. I had a client in Colorado, speaking of Colorado, they were a siding company. And the name of the company, because it started 60 years ago from the grandfather of the current owner, was Colorado Siding Repair. That was the name of the company. And so what do you how many 70% of the calls were what? They were repairs, and they really didn't do repairs anymore. They went and they did new siding. So the rep had to overcome that. Oh, we don't do repairs, even though it's in the damn name of the company. So it was kind of crazy. So if they finally, while I was doing in my training cons consultancy, they rebranded and they got rid of that and they became bellweather exteriors. And it was kind of yeah, so it was kind of they had to. And all of a sudden, oh, look at that. None of the all the repair calls disappeared. So, and and they and they almost doubled their revenue a few years later.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

So on that point too, Alan, like there's a couple of case studies in the book about a company that was called Economy Drain. And and I I knew the guy for years, and I said, I said, listen, like you're attracting people that want to spend the least amount of money with you.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Just based on the name. And he's like, I know, but everybody knows me. Anyway, finally convinced him to change the name. And he was running, I'm gonna mess up the math. I know the the final number, but like he was running about 20 calls a day. After the renaming, we named them plumbing pals. So we actually went with a mascot-based brand, stickier name, but he was running 20 calls a day, and I think we increased the average tickets by $200. So you multiply that out across, and it was an increase of like one and a half million dollars in the first year of increased average tickets by simply changing the name. Because again, we're leading in with a name that sounds like it should be cheap, like whether it's budget or affordable or economy, like those are all names that signal exactly the type of customers it's going to attract. And if that's not the type of customers you want to attract, then yeah, we shouldn't be called that.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Remember the years where people used to name their companies with A's so they'd be the first listing in the phone book? I do.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

I'm old enough to remember that.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Yes, I do remember that. People say a triple A plumbing, the only reason they're triple A plumbing is because. They could be the first listing. That was the first uh, I guess, Google search back then, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

All right, let's start wrapping this up, Dan. I I could talk to you all day, but I I like to ask people in their in their wheelhouse, give me your funniest or most memorable story of either a company you work with or a brand that you had to fix that just stands out that you're like like, oh my God, we went from this to this, and this is what happened, or something that just pops in your head that's a really good story to tell in your in your world, if you if you can come up with one.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

So many years ago, about 10 years ago, we rebranded a company called Gettel Air Conditioning. It's probably one of the largest air conditioning companies now in the country. I think they're at 300 service company. They're about, I think, 300 in revenue, 300 million. Uh they were at 5 million in revenue when we rebranded them. And it's it's the story of a a boy holding a flashlight is the visual. And it was the story of the the founder working with his dad, and he would hold a flashlight for his dad while his dad worked on this equipment. And we decided we're gonna make it nostalgic based and retro, and we kind of did the illustration based on Norman Rockwell style illustration. So we I literally dressed up a neighbor that was that was at the age we wanted to represent. He was 10 years old, so we we bought overalls for him and got him the newspaper hat and everything, took the picture, illustrated the whole brand, the whole logo. Like we're talking at this point, you know, 70 hours into the illustration, like significant amounts of work. And then at the very end, Ken, his name is Ken Gorich, who's the owner. He said, you know, it'd be really cool is if we could make the boy my 10 my son. He's 18 now, but let's make him 10 years old. So we had to literally redo the entire creative and base it off his son and do it over. And I just remember saying to Ken at the time, I'm like, you know what, Ken? That information would have been useful to me about two weeks ago. But it went on to become hugely successful, and and he just blew that company up and is pretty remarkable for us. Probably one of our most successful brands next to Tommy Mello's A1 Garage, which is probably our second most successful home service brand.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Did you wind up changing the name of that company or did it stay Gettelman? What was it called? It stayed Gettle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

So Gettle actually used to be a manufacturer of heating and air conditioning equipment in the in the Las Vegas area, and that's where the name originated from. So it was actually a manufacturer, and then it got transitioned into a service company from there when they stopped manufacturing that equipment.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

So you you kept Gettle, but you changed all the visuals and gave it that nostalgic, like this feel-good kind of like I want this company to work in my house.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah, exactly. So it's a cool story, only just because like it just was wild to me at that point, just to see how a brand that we created that impact that it's had. So they're in Phoenix and they're in many different markets. In Vegas, of course, you know, any anytime I go out there, it's pretty wild just driving on the highway, and I'll see some of our work there, which is still pretty cool for me to experience.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

You need to help all these lawyers that are all over the highways on the billboards now. That's all you said. They all my my girlfriend lives about an hour from me. So I drive on 95 South at least once a week. And every single billboard, every single one is a lawyer. And I couldn't tell you the difference between, except for Morgan and Morgan, who's everywhere, you know. Right, right. And and they need they need help. Like, can someone come up with something different than a picture of a guy standing there in a tie saying we're the best, you know, injury attorney lawyer? Yep. So there's another niche for you, Dan. All right, Dan, this has been great. So uh for all the contractors listening, they want to get in touch with you and fix their brand, where do they go?

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Um, you can go to kickcharge.com and you know, we'd be happy to talk with you. And you could also hit me up on Facebook and just look up my name. And even if I can't, like, even if you never become a client, but you have a question on something about your brand or you want feedback on something about your brand, like I'm not a hard sell kind of guy. So if you want to send me, I'm happy to take a look at it. Maybe there's this couple of simple things I can give you as tips to make it better. But I'm always happy to help. Listen, the trades have been great to me, my team. I got 60 people here that we owe everything to the trades too. So I'm always happy to give back if I get the opportunity.

unknown 48:27

All right.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

And what do you think? Before I let you go, what do you think of my brand? How's how am I doing so far? Good? You're doing good.

unknown 48:33

You're doing good.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

You got all the red and black going. So so it it it's uh I try to stay consistent with that. All right, for folks out there, it's kickcharge.com and it's Dan Antonelli, A-N-T-O-N-E-L-L-I. Check him out. He's also on LinkedIn, which is where we met. And uh, Dan, this has been awesome. I really want to thank you for being here and sharing some of your wisdom, and and I hope uh you can help uh quite a few of the people in the audience. And speaking of the audience, thank you guys for joining me once again on Selling in the Dwelling. Don't forget to visit our title sponsor, Paradigm Bendo. It's paradigmbendo.com forward slash dwelling for the best software you're gonna find for getting that sales appointment nice and smooth and to get the customer to know, like, and trust you. Uh, this is it for Alan and the Selling in the Dwelling podcast. We'll see everyone next time. Take care.

SPEAKER_04 49:19

Selling in the Dwelling.