16 - The Pattern Interrupt That Gets Homeowners to Listen | Tony Hoty

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Selling in the Dwelling, your go-to podcast for the in-home selling and remodeling world. I'm your host, Alan Langer, and I've got one of the big dogs with me today. I think everyone's going to know this gentleman when I introduce him. But first, before we get to my great guest, the website for the Selling in the Dwelling is www.sellinginthewelling.com. And I mention that because I'd love you to for you to click on the Ask Alan button in the top right and send me a question. We've got a great question from another industry expert coming up. And if I use your question in a future episode, you will get a free selling in the dwelling t-shirt. And also don't forget to visit my title sponsor, Paradigm Vendo, the best in-home software you can find in the house to take care of the entire process from start to finish. So without further delay, I am very excited to bring on Tony Hody from Tony Hody Training and Consulting. Tony's been in the business now for three decades, I believe, or a little more than three decades. He is an expert in lead generation, person-to-person marketing, uh, door-to-door canvassing events. He does it all. And he also has another sales training arm that I that I discovered that he does uh recently, which also helps uh reps, you know, sell more. But I think his bread and butter has been the lead generation. So, Tony, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me today. Thank you very much for having me. It's an honor to be here. I love that you're here. And I really love look at all your stuff. You're a really good poster, you're a really good social media person as far as getting your stuff out there. And I don't let a post go by without reading it because you always have really good nuggets, especially in the marketing world. And sometimes you post something that's so obvious, like, duh, yeah, of course we should be doing that. And so many uh companies are not doing it. So before we get into some nitty-gritty here, how did you get to where you are? Like, where did you start? Did you start with your own in-home service company, or did you start tell us your journey on how you became the expert that you are?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

It started as a part-time job for beer money. I was at For beer money. I was at the Ohio State University and I was very thirsty. And uh, you know, I I was calling around to help ask if I could get a team together on an unseasonably warm day in Columbus, Ohio. It was uh not quite springtime, but we were gonna go out and play some basketball. And uh called a friend up. He said, Nope, can't play, I gotta go to work. I said, You know what? I need to go to work way more than I need to be playing basketball. I said, Are they hiring? And he said, Yeah, you're gonna have to meet me on the corner. I'm gonna be late for work. And I was so hungry, you know, at the time, you know, for work. I I went and met him on the corner with basically no explanation and went in and shadowed him for the day. Uh so he was a canvaser at the time? That was a door canvaser working for a home improvement company in in Columbus. Wow. I was there for, you know, five plus years and uh really got a very well-rounded view of the home remodeling industry. I knocked on doors for a couple years. I sold in the home for about a year. I worked in the call center, home shows, fairs, festivals, and um, you know, they didn't do much advertising of any kind, you know, and uh it was all make marketing. And so I really got to understand what it takes to manufacture a lead and convert the lead, you know, hand properly in the call center, schedule it properly, and then you know, convert it in the home into a sale. So that was just a masterclass of um great operators, and I learned a ton from them. You know, then of course advanced on to starting my own business after, you know, after college, you know, learned uh some some life lessons there as well. That that didn't go very well early on as a as a young young man. You know, it was much more challenges than than it was rewards, but the lessons were rewards in themselves. So, you know, but that that's how it got started for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah, so you just said a couple things that reminded me of some previous episodes. We had I had Brigham Dickinson on from Power Selling Pros, and he he talked about a lot of companies don't have lead problems, they have lead conversion problems. Like you're getting leads, you're not converting them into appointments. And then uh Sebastian Jimenez from Rilla, his big thing was, you know, we're a we're a student of failure. Like we have to fail to get better. And it sounds like you had you went through that in the beginning. So talk about if you could, companies are getting leads. And I now, last year and a half or so, two years, the number one complaint I hear from many contractors is uh we don't have enough leads. You know, we're we're struggling with leads, they're getting more and more expensive. They get really expensive if you get a lead and you can't convert it into an appointment. So talk about some of the biggest mistakes you think contractors are making when the leads are coming in and they're not converting.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Great question. You know, when it comes to converting leads, first and foremost, you know, speed is of the essence. You know, if they're inbound leads and they're calling you or coming through your website or, you know, a lead aggregator in any of those scenarios, jumping on the inquiry within seconds or minutes of it coming in, that's essential. Another thing that people don't fully understand is how important it is for speed to meet. And what I mean by that is, you know, from the time we schedule the appointment to the time we actually go visit them. You know, that's got to be as soon as possible. We love same-day sets. That was one thing that I learned back in my college days, knocking on doors. If you could go knock on someone's door today, set the appointment for later today, have a sale today. I mean, everybody made money. It was to me, it was like, you know, the dopamine was legal drugs, you know, to be able to, you know, to to to be broke and and um, you know, the old rags to riches in just three pitches kind of exactly right. That type of scenario where, you know, you could just quickly get go in and be having a bad day, be behind on your bills, and you could correct it really quick, you know. So, but speed to meat really early on, I did it selfishly, right? Because I I wanted to get the bonus, I wanted to get the recognition and rewards. But later you find out that that's what the consumer wants. You know, they they want it tended to, you know, and when they have a need and they have an itch, they want it scratched and they want it scratched right away. So if you can get over to their home today, they're more likely to buy from you. You know, a lot of people are confused by that. They they don't run same-day sets. They there's their salespeople don't want their schedule disrupted. They don't want, you know, to have to juggle or make that work. You know, you have to build that capacity into your into your sales schedule to be able to have some same-day sets and some next days because when you're booking three, four days out, you know, a lot of a lot of attrition, you know, especially if you're dealing with nebulous leads.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah, and and you just said something I think that's critically important that I don't think a lot of sales leaders think about. I used to love, so I sold in the home for well over 20 years, uh, was with Renewal by Anderson for about 15. I used to love same-day appointments, and even better, a canvassing appointment. And and if I walked around that sales room, we had 88 reps at the time. If I asked anyone, you want to go on a canvassing same day appointment, 90% would say, No, wait, what are you kidding me? I'd rather go home and play Call of Duty or something. I never understood it because that's an impulsive person who has a problem. And if you handle that appointment well, you're gonna sell it. So I think the issue one of the issues is what is the attitude like canvassing? If I went across the board and asked salespeople, they like canvassing appointments, most of them would say no. How do you change the mindset of the sales rep to say, hey man, this is a great appointment because there's no competition for it?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, I think it's education. The knife always cuts both ways, right? You know, when it comes to inbound leads, there there is a lot of competition involved. And, you know, they are shopping and a lot of times they book two and three appointments. Maybe someone's been in the door already and and messed with their perceptions of price, messed with their perceptions of quality. You know, maybe they've got someone coming out tomorrow or the next day, and that's going to be a difficult thing to overcome because they're going to want to, you know, just give me the opportunity to talk to them and I'll follow up with you. You know, so there's, you know, there's pros and cons. You know, with the canvassing lead, I think it's really important to highlight all those pros. I don't think enough people understand or or really relay that to the salespeople that, you know, we can feed you every day on a diet of these leads because we're creating them, we're manufacturing them. We can't do the same with a television lead or a radio lead or a Google lead. You know, there's only so many people shopping today for, you know, for this particular category. So, you know, we got to go out and stimulate demand. And so that's that's really important. And getting them to understand that, you know, if they were impulsive enough to respond to a an individual at the front door that's probably less experienced, probably has less training, and they were able to book the appointment, then you should at least be able to take that seed and nurture it, cultivate it, and turn it into a sale.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Absolutely. And you mentioned something really important. The word perception. I trained this a lot. I talk about it in my book. The perception of sales is horrible. Nobody wants to meet with a salesperson ever. Even if they have the roof is falling off, they don't want to meet with the salesperson because they're afraid of a terrible experience being ripped off, all that stuff. Well, the same goes true with guys walking around the neighborhood. You know, they see them walking around, they've all, you know, the good canvassing team will have their uniforms on and everything, and they turn the lights off and they hide. It's because they don't want to be sold, right? How do you train canvassers to overcome that? Like, is it I I know you have to have a thick skin, but is there something specific to overcome that awful perception that people have when you're walking up to the door?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah, so I coined a phrase a long time ago. Before you can charm them, you must first disarm them.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

You've got to I'm writing that down. Before you can charm them, you first must disarm them. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

So yeah, before you can charm them, you must first disarm them. And what that means is if you could picture a homeowner's state of mind when they came to the front door, what their mental posture would look like.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

It would probably look like this. Exactly. For those who are listening, Tony just put up his dukes like he was ready in the boxing ring. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yeah. And so, you know, your job is to lower their guard, bring those boxing gloves down, you know? Yes. Because your message is going to just meet a brick wall if they're still in a guarded state of mind. And so disarmament is is huge. We love to have a good icebreaker at the front door. That's essential. A lot of people want to just introduce themselves in the typical fashion of a salesperson. Hello, my name is so and so. Here on behalf of such and such. And we specialize in X, Y, Z. And unfortunately, all that stuff is egocentric. It's all about you. The only thing they really want to know is why you're there.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

So, what would be an icebreaker? What would you what would give me an example if you could?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Just want to apologize for any disruption we might have caused here in the neighborhood. I'm not sure if you saw our trucks. We've been working for one of your neighbors. We've been installing some new windows, we've installing a new bathroom. And um, while we were working, we had a number of folks that have wandered down, asked for business cards and brochures. We've had people peeking through the blinds and things like that. And so it's a courtesy to the folks nearby, we we're just leaving some information behind.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Oh, that's great. That's a nice pattern interrupt right there, because they're not expecting that.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah, and it and leaving information behind is is non-threatening, right? Right, exactly. Get what I want, which is information, and you're gonna leave it behind, which gives me the impression that I'm gonna be able to digest this and and make my own decisions with it.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

So I'm gonna show I'm gonna tell you what I used to do because I was one of the rare reps who I actually visited my job sites and then I walked around the houses. And instead of knocking on the door and saying, hey, we're installing next door, here's my card in case you need windows, because that will get you nowhere. I would actually say, and it was really genuine because I meant it, I'm like, hey, just so you know, I you probably noticed our trucks, just like you said, we're installing some bay in a bow window next door. In case any debris winds up in your yard or something blows over here, here's my card. Just give me a call if anything happens or you need to call me. And I just was like, here, I'm here for you in case something happens. Not, I see you need windows. And I got to tell you, people were like very appreciative, and I got jobs out of it. I got I got appointments out of it. So that's how I did the pattern of it.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, you're on the right track because you're you're you're focused on serve, not sell. And that's exactly the mentality that you you have to have. You know, we talked about that, you know, that mental posture that that the homeowner has. You know, they also are are gonna see you a certain way, you know, and they're either gonna see dollar signs in your eyes, they're gonna smell commission breath, you know, or they're gonna see somebody who's who's genuinely there to help in some way. And so you want to try to communicate that you that you're there to help. I've got information. There's other people in your neighborhood where the houses are the same age and they they've requested information. And so it is as a courtesy to people, you know, we we want to offer that to you.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And you're using just when you as soon as you say other houses in the neighborhood, you're using the power of social proof right there, which is one of the top three pillars of of influence for sure. So really great stuff. So that's canvassing. Tell me a little bit about the difference between, let's say, canvassing and working a home show and those types of leads, where again, you know, reps are like, oh, he got I got an appointment from the Cherry Festival. That's gonna be a shitty appointment. And they, you know, that's the mentality that so many sales reps have. Again, I would love these appointments that came from the Cohog Festival here in Rhode Island because there are no other window companies there. You know, so you know, what's the difference when the when you're setting the appointment there? And then again, how do you tech tell those reps that these are good?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, so it's a similar mentality as far as uh as a lead generator is concerned. You know, you have to engage the prospect, you have to disarm them, you know, you have to make it fun for them. We have all kinds of means of engaging people at shows and events. I mean, everything from treasure chests and scratch-off tickets and prize wheels and guess and win contests, guess how many, you know, cherries are in the basket if you're at the cherry festival.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

How many cherries are in the jar, right? Try to tie into the theme of the festival if you can and make it fun because that's what people came to a festival for. You can't, you know, you don't want to redirect their attention. You want to connect. You know, yeah, the big big mistake is people want to redirect their attention from wandering around having a good time to let's talk window.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

And it's like Yeah, buy my windows, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, that's that doesn't work so well. So the process is the same after you've engaged them, right? That's really what it's about, is is disarming them, getting them engaged, getting them to take a look at what you have. And you know, we have some great line of questioning to kind of uncover priorities and and uncover needs. So if you were to win it for free in a home makeover contest, Alan, which one of these projects would you choose? When they take that bait, that's the fish set in the hook right there. You know, you know there you got a live one on the line because they picked something. There's is it about the replacement windows that out of all the things on the list, as if there was a hundred things on the list, of all the things on the list, what made you choose the windows?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Well, they're they're old. Right. And there you go. And and you're asking an open-ended question, which is do you need windows? A closed-ended question. The answer is going to be no, I'm all set, and they and they walk away. So open-ended questions gets the brain to think, which is a which I talk about all the time, and then it starts to engage them. So that that's great stuff. And it's pulling, not pushing.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

When surveyed consumers, one of the top grievances or complaints they have when it comes to salespeople is they don't like being pushed. In one of the studies, they they said they'd rather be lied to than pushed. Really? Listen, if someone's lying to me sooner or later, I'm gonna figure it out. I just don't like pushy salespeople, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Statements push, questions pull. Love that. Statements push, questions pull. That's awesome. All right, so we're talking canvassing. We got we got events now. When you're talking to contractors, I would think many contractors spend most of their marketing dollars, I would think, on advertising or social media or stuff like that. Because I think they're afraid of doing this because they don't know what to do, they don't know how. They don't know how to start a canvassing program. They don't know how to, what do I do at a festival? Then do I got to spend 10 grand on a big booth and stuff? How do you convince a contractor that at the end of the day, the investment's gonna be worth it? Because I know you believe this, and I believe it as well. This type of person-to-person marketing is always gonna be much better than a Google click or a or an ad they saw on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Man, it it's a tough thing to do. You know, social proof is really the best way to do that. You take them to visit clients, you take business owners to visit clients and show them an operation that's doing this, that's a well-oiled machine. I didn't have the luxury years ago of bringing them to my operation in Cleveland. I have that luxury now, and that has been made all the difference in the world. Because when they can see that you're spending your own hard-earned money, these initiatives, and they're working, you know, they're convinced. Now it's just a matter of how. And and that's been that's been wonderful to be able to provide that social proof and provide, you know, real leadership, you know, leading from the front, not telling people what to do, but showing people what to do.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Hey dwellers, quick break. Hey, did you know that the closing percentages for in-home sales has been dropping consistently over the last 10 years? It's really crazy, and there's a lot of reasons for it. But one of them is reps have so much to do in the house because there's so many different platforms that you're jumping back and forth all the time. Well, my title sponsor, Paradigm Vendo, takes care of that. In one digital platform, you can go from initial appointment right to final sale and signatures by visiting just their platform. It's amazing. You gotta check them out. It's paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling, P-A-R-A-D-I-G-M Vendo.com forward slash dwelling, because your reps need to give the homeowners a great experience in the house, and jumping around doesn't do that. Visit paradigmvendo.com forward slash dwelling and take care of the experience your reps are giving in the house. Hey, sales professionals, are you proud of your profession? Are you proud of being in sales? Well, you know what? You really should be, and it's time to start showing it. And that's why I created my new merchandise shop, the sevensecretshop.net. It's the the number seven secret shop.net, and there you can find great hats, t-shirts, beanies, water bottles, phone covers, all kinds of really fun merchandise with great sayings like I love sales or sales rocks, or even for your kids, my dad is a sales rock star, my mom is a sales superstar. Visit the sevensecretshop.net with the number seven, and you can pick out anything you want to show your love of what you do for a living. The sevensecretshop.net, visit it today. You know, you have these, you bring people in, you train this stuff, but you also have your own, you still have your own home improvement company, right? So you're still walking the walk every single day. So you're showing them, hey, look at my company, this is what I'm doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yes. So we have the ability to take people out in the field. They can shadow someone knocking doors, they can look at our numbers, we can take them to a fair, a festival, a live event. We have retail stores where we're manufacturing leads inside of grocery stores and big box stores, Ace hardwares, things like that. Yeah. A call center that um, you know, is resurrecting old leads and and you know, nurturing and cultivating lead aggregator inquiries, things like that. So we're we're definitely able to show them that. And what what's really fascinating is you know, during COVID, we've fielded a ton of inbound calls from print media and Google and a variety of things. And our lead generation mix has has entirely shifted. It's almost all manufactured leads right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

No kidding. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

The phone is great, as pristine as our reputation is, and as you know, hard as we work on online marketing and things, it's just not ringing. The demand isn't quite there. So, you know, we're having to go out and and tickle the wire and stimulate the business.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah, and go and go and get it. And and I'm assuming, I don't know this because I don't have a canvassing team or run or run Google ads, but I'm assuming the Google ads or the social media stuff is probably more expensive per lead than face-to-face. I mean, probably significantly, right? Significantly.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

You know, we had an incredible month last month canvassing. It was our lowest cost of leads. And then of course, some of the marketing that we're doing was unaffordable, you know, and that's what we keep keep analyzing it, keep top grading. Yeah, big difference. And leads that you are paying for which strictly out of the checkbook and those that were actually out there, you know, generating with some blood, sweat, and tears.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah, I mean, I I spoke to a I have a client who I work with in New Jersey, and she was talking about I think last month her leads were almost nine hundred dollars each. That's expensive. That that is a You know, you're sending a rep to a house that costs you a thousand bucks for him or her to get there, and they don't sell it. That's that's not coming back. So uh I think a lot of companies are starting to look for different ways, and and you're the you're the epitome of like here, try this because it works. So I want to talk about some of your posts and what you've been doing out there because it's fascinating stuff and it's so unique. So the first thing I want to talk about, and I love when you s when I first saw this, and now it's I I think you've had it for quite a at least a year, maybe less. You did a showroom, a 24-hour showroom. I want to know where you came up with the idea because I think it's brilliant. And from what I've seen in all your posts, it's wildly successful, correct?

SPEAKER_01 22:39

We have developed a concept. We have a trademark and a utility patent on the ability in which a homeowner or a consumer can enter a showroom on their own with an access code. They text a request for that access code. They text their name, their first name and last name, and in response, they automatically receive an access code to enter the showroom. They can do it 365 days a year, you know, seven days a week. Amazing. Um, 24 hours a day. So that gets them in, and while they're in their perusing, we call them on the phone and ask them how they like it. Can we answer any questions for you? Would you like us to come to your home and quote something specific for you? And so it's again, it's service-minded. We want to serve them with the showroom, give them the opportunity to touch, feel, compare, let them do it on their own and be there for them to be able to answer questions and serve them in that regard. We opened our first 24-hour showroom in July of last year, and we just opened our fourth 24-hour showroom. So inside of a year, we've built these. And I didn't come up with the idea myself. It was evolved over time. I'm sure you're familiar with the mogul Tommy Mello. A little bit, yeah. Yeah. And so Tommy is really big on Google listings, having them open 24 hours because he's in an on-demand business. You know, when a garage door fails, spring breaks, something like that, they need to show the consumer that they're ready and available for that call. I was reluctant to make my Google listing 24 hours, showing that we were open for 24 hours because we did have a showroom, and I was concerned that homeowners would stop and we were not open. And so we would end up with one-star reviews or unhappy customers. And so I I asked Tommy in person. I said, Tommy, what do you think I should do? He said, Man, it's probably worth the one star, the few and far between one-star reviews you might get, because it's so important to have that listing showing that you're open 24 hours. So I I kept bringing it up to Tommy, other people, and my my team here in Cleveland. And we came up with the idea. We just started asking these what if questions. Like, what if we had security guards monitor our showroom remotely? What if we hired people overseas to watch the surveillance at night? What if we what if we did that? And so we determined that we could do it with surveillance. We still have not had anyone come in past 11 p.m. Okay. No one at 3 a.m., like you know, looking for a place to sleep. Yeah. Maybe if we continue, as you can sit continue to see these things uh scatter across the United States, I'm sure we'll have some stories. But it it's been pretty benign. If the the idea evolved and um it has been a winner for us, we close at 65% on showroom rate, so more than double what our traditional closing rate is.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And I gotta tell you, the importance to me, the importance of having a showroom, you can't discount that. I I've talked to so many home improvement contractors, like, I don't want the expenses of a showroom. And I'm like, you're missing the boat. You you people want to come and and touch and feel and and try things. I used to work, my very first job, I was I sold sunroom in New Jersey and really great owner, very small dealership. But he had this, he was renting space in this kind of a warehouse kind of thing, but it was on a major highway. And he had a little office in the front, and then he had, I'm not kidding, eight sunrooms built in the back warehouse area, full sunrooms. Wow. And all he would do was when people came in, he would show it. And I said to him at one point, I said, Mark, let's have an open house. Like, let's invite people to this beautiful sunroom. And he goes, Oh, I never thought of that. So every other Sunday, me and the other sales rep, we'd sit there for five hours on a Sunday, and people would come in. We'd set those appointments. I'm telling you, 90% closing rate, because they were walking around in the sunroom. But he was like, No, I never thought of that. I'm like, you got this beautiful sunroom. So I think a lot of contractors should really heed your advice. Get a showroom, have some open houses, even go to the length of even having a 24-hour one if you can, but you got to have something that a customer could walk in and touch and feel. There's so much utility with it.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

I can't begin to express you get the Google listing that you can build reviews and you're gonna now generate leads online, which even people who don't come in, just Google searching new windows, new bathroom, new roof in that geography, are more likely to see you because you have a brick and mortar presence there. So it's a it's a one-two punch. A few things we never thought about, Alan, are earlier in this conversation we talked about conversion rates, right? Yeah. We have people booking appointments, and then before their appointment, they stop into the showroom. So it helps secure that appointment. Yes, yes. You have people who, you know, have an estimate, don't buy, come back, okay, because they're they're not dead yet, you know, so it almost works as a self-serving rehash. And then we have people who do buy and maybe are having second thoughts, or they have family members that are in their ear, you know, they're not sure if the color they picked is right. So those reservations that they have drive them back into the showroom. All of that is contributing to higher conversions overall for us.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Do you have reps that say, like they know it's not, they're not gonna close that evening? Because, hey, can you why don't you meet me at the showroom tomorrow and I'll show you the stuff in person? You have reps utilizing that?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, they do. It's it's it's not something they try we try to lean on, but it is there. It's certainly there as a safety net to help close sales for sure. We have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Especially if you don't have, if your competitors don't have the showroom and you do, that's gonna make the customer feel that much more better.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, talk about great questions. Why do you think they don't?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Why do you think why do I think they don't have showing them?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Why do you think my why do you think my competitors don't have a showroom? Oh yeah. You asked that question to a to a consumer. What are the answers you got? They can't afford it, they're not proud of their products.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

All of it. Yeah, it just put it puts that seed of doubt in there for sure. Yeah. Good stuff, really, really great stuff. Okay, so the other post that's sticking in my head, and I and I want you to talk about this one and anything else that you've come up with creatively, but you had one where there was a guy selling ice cream or giving away ice cream. Tell me about that and and what exactly is happening with what you're doing with the ice cream truck.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

So I've had some fascination with either a food truck or an ice cream truck. I've had lots of conversations with other people in the industry about it. But the truck itself is just cost prohibitive and a huge investment and a lot of complications surrounding that. You might even have to worry about getting the right licensing and this and that. But when it comes to just a little bike, the uh like a hot dog stand or an ice cream bike, you really don't run into the cost. You don't run into the regulation, and you can brand it for your company and you can stock it very, very inexpensively with pre-wrapped items, you know, popsicles and different things like that. And it's something that you can give away at your fairs, your festivals. It's something that you can you could take to a destination like a hospital or a church. And it's something you could take to a neighborhood, drive it through the neighborhood while while people are canvassing. So, you know, I think it can enhance what you're already doing. And I think it can break you into some new possible events where you're just saying thank you to uh public servants, police, fire, hospital, frontline uh individuals, spread a lot of goodwill in in the process.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yeah, I think it's brilliant. And it's again, I love the, you know, I'm I'm all about pattern interrupting and not not being the experience that they're that customers are expecting, especially in sales. And this is a very cool thing to just you're you know you're you're really double down, you're going right after your branding. Like it's all about branding. Like if you go to a first responder's fireman's picnic or something, you're not there to sell windows, you're just giving out free ice cream, but you're spreading goodwill, and that's that's going part of your branding. And a year from now, when someone needs windows or doors, oh, remember that guy I gave I gave away ice cream? They'll probably remember you because it's top of mind stuff. So all right, give me another one that I haven't seen on social media, something clever that you've come up with from a marketing standpoint, because I'm sure you've got a bunch of them.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Oh, man, we try to we try to do stuff all the time, you know, get get creative. And we we've done a lot of things with gifts, you know, that have been helpful. You know, recently we came up with a survey that our salespeople take while the homeowner is while they're calculating, figuring out all the paperwork and processing an order, we're taking a survey on the homeowner's fun facts that their favorite food, their favorite candy or treat, their dog's name and things like that. And we're using that information later in a in a gift basket that we, you know, deliver to them after the job is complete. We also use it if we need to, if there's a delay associated with our project, you know, if there is something that frustrates them, you know, a mismeasured window or something to that effect. You know, we're instead of just saying we're sorry, you know, we're going over there with their specified favorite candy and that type of thing. So it's having just a greater connection and having making our job more fun, you know, and interacting with our customers.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah, and it and again, it's like it's something they're not expecting because they're all expecting it's a home improvement company. So they're gonna, you know, here's my expectation. The sales rep's gonna rip me off, the company's not gonna do what they said, the installers are gonna, you know, have their pants falling down and you know, park on my bushes. And that's all they're this is literally what they're expecting. I always, every time I I start a training, I always kind of say, listen, guys, the bar is pretty damn low in this industry. It's not that hard to get above this bar. So so many people screw it up, and and it's folks like you that are trying to fix the industry. I'm trying to do it from a sales standpoint. So kudos to you for doing that kind of stuff because you're elevating the whole industry, in my opinion. Thank you for saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

But that it's it's a joy to do that kind of thing, and uh it's fun to have get some unique results, share it with everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah, awesome. How big is your sales team, by the way, in in your home improvement? Or is it is it all together with your consulting and home brewing, or are they different?

SPEAKER_01 32:46

No, they're they're completely separate businesses.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Okay. Yeah, we have eight sales reps in Cleveland. So it's all it's all in Cleveland. All your showrooms are in Cleveland as well?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yes, they're in Northeast Ohio, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Gotcha. And you have Lead Gen, an event that you hold every year. It's called Lead Lead Expo, right? Is that what it's called? Lead Gen Expo, yeah. Lead Gen Expo. Tell me about that because that's something for everyone that's listening, especially for the business owners. Uh, you I know you just finished yours. I think it was last month, right? Or earlier this month, yeah. So talk about what business owners can get for next year's Lead Gen Expo. Because if you want leads, you have to go to this event. I've heard nothing but great things about it. So why don't you give yourself a little plug here about Lead Gen 2027?

SPEAKER_01 33:29

So, yeah, Lead Gen Expo is an event that's really designed at showcasing a variety of different channels for lead generation, educating people on what's out there. We have a focus on, you know, door-to-door canvassing, we shows and events, fairs and festivals, the call center, retail stores, big box stores, and things of that nature. We try to help people branch out and get a nice, well-rounded mix of leads for their company. So we it's kind of a menu for them to come in and learn a little bit about all of those different things so they can decide what they want to pursue for the rest of the year, what new initiatives they're gonna take on, and they can get introduced to people who are experts in those areas so that they don't have to pay the dumb tax. They can further on down the line a new initiative, you know, because you know, when you say time to start something new, you're gonna fumble your way through it. And there's a lot of great people there that are already doing it, even your peers. You know, it's not necessarily consultants or trainers that you have to pay. It's developing relationships with people that have departments and divisions that you don't. And so I think uh it's a phenomenal event from that standpoint. It's really become kind of a community where people are interacting all year long, uh staying in touch with each other and helping each other get better.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Well, congratulations for for running that and pulling it off because I said I've seen it every year, and you know, it looks like a great event. I know I've spoken to people who have gone there and they say nothing but great things. So congrats on that. Before we get to the Ask Allen segment, because we're flying here, the the one thing, let's go back to the earlier in the podcast where I talked about conversions. For you, everyone I've spoken to, Megan, you know, Megan Beattie, who works you know as part of your consulting firm, Brigham, talk about conversions and how important it is for that person who's picking up the phone when that call comes in. Now, this could be an inbound lead, but you're also you've got the person at the festival, at the person at the home show, you're trying to set the appointments. How important is that person who's picking up the phone? And and give me one or two things that you train them to make sure that they can convert that lead.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

It's hugely important. They're the director of first impressions, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

And so you really gotta, you know, we talked about people calling up and they're guarded and they're not looking forward to this call. So you you definitely want someone that is warm and and uh receptive. And, you know, when when people have questions, okay, common questions, we know they're coming, right? We we need to be prepared for those common questions. You know, can you give me a ballpark price over the phone? You know, does my spouse have to be here? You know, right? Do you carry this product? Do you carry that product? You know, there is a number of them that we know in advance that they're coming, so we have to prepare. And that's really the biggest thing is preparation because I was listening to Tony Robbins earlier today on a podcast, and you know, he talked about playing a video game with a younger family member and how he wanted Tony to play along with them, right? And he, this young person just flew through it and they were so familiar, and he was killed off in an instant when his turn, right? But it wasn't anything other than the fact that this person was recognizing what was familiar, and Tony was reacting. And there's a big difference between recognition and reaction, right? When you when you're just prepared, you can you can really do a much better job than when you're reacting. You you know, when you react, you're fumbling and you're, you know, you're not instilling confidence and trust in in the other party. So I think that's really the big the big part of it.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

And that goes right to sales, too. You do you just made a great sales point, you know, being being prepared rather than react and sitting there and like not knowing how to answer questions or sounding like, well, I'll get to that in 20 minutes. I gotta follow my script, you know, A, B, C, D. I can't answer that question yet, which I've had reps say.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

So you know, what I see in sales that's interesting is you know, seasonality has an impact on the types of objections you get, right? Okay. Here's what I mean by that is you know, during the month of December, let's say the company's running a lot of canvassing leads because the other marketing isn't working, right? So they're they're not running in any competition and just getting these canvassing leads, and maybe they're getting the holiday objection of, you know, we got some money for the holidays and that kind of thing. And then you fast forward to the end of January when the home shows start hitting the schedule. Now you're getting other estimates. You know, we we named it in three or four different booths, you weren't the only one, and we need to give these other people a shot. So it will change based on time of year, what you're gonna hear frequently. And you can be sharp at at a certain time of year on one objection, but but it's too late, you know, after you've heard it so many times, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely being prepared and and you know, being able to, you know, recognize and be prepared before instead of reacting.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

I want to tell you a quick funny story about a great canvasser. So I was working at somewhere and was married at the time. My ex-wife, she calls me. I was either on my way to an appointment or way or way home, I forget, and she said, Hey, I just met this guy at the door and he was doing this, and it was some sort of charity thing. I said, Okay. And right away my guard goes up. Like, what did he do? You, you know, are you okay? Like, we we immediately go to like this, this had to be a, you know, this person had to be a bad person because he's knocking on the door. And she goes, No, he was really nice. It's some sort of charity in Providence. And I gave him a check. And I went, What? Yeah, I wrote him a hundred dollar check. I said, You handed a stranger at our door a hundred dollar check with your account number at the bottom of it. And she paused, she's like, Oh, I said, When did this happen? She goes, 10 minutes ago. I said, Okay, I'm gonna find him. So I drove around the neighborhood and I actually found the kid. I was very nice. I said, Listen, give me, I need the check back. I can't have anybody walking around. And he was actually really nice. I understand. And then I said, You need to work for us. And I gave him the name of my canvassing manager, and he worked, he he wound up working for us because that's how good he was. He actually convinced my ex-wife to write a hundred dollar check within 10 minutes of meeting her at the door. That's great. Crazy stuff. So, anyway, that could be the power, the power of a good canvaser is right there. Hey sellers, let me ask you something. Your sales rep walks into a home and pulls up a presentation. Is it dynamic? Is it interactive? Is it built to wow the customer? Or is it simply another PDF from two years ago that looks like everybody else's? Here's the thing in today's in-home selling world, your presentation is part of the sale, and that's exactly why I want to tell you about our good friends over at Engage, the sponsor for the Ask Allen segment. See, Engage, which is I N-G-A-G-E.io, is the industry's leading interactive sales presentation software built specifically for in-home sales teams. We're talking dynamic, engaging, professional presentations that make your reps look like the obvious choice the moment they open their iPads. And the results speak for themselves. So many companies are increased closing percentages, increased customer satisfaction scores. I can go on and on, but you need to check out Engage if you want to really create unbelievable presentations in the home. It's Ing A-G-E.io, engage.io, because your presentation is everything. Visit them today. All right, Tony, it is time the Ask Allen segment is coming up, and we've got a question from someone I think most people in the industry know. And he wrote me this question, he sent it to me on Facebook. It's Brian Gottlieb. We all know Brian, author of Beyond the Hammer, a great book. And Brian writes in a very simple question. And this could be asked for canvassing, for sales, for anything, and it's and it's this What is the single most important discovery question you like to ask and why? So that's Brian's question. I'll let you tackle it first, Tony.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, in the home as a salesperson, I actually think I have two that I've been kind of always leaned on. One of them is asking a homeowner, what's their biggest reservation in taking on a project like this? I like that one. Okay. I really like to uncover fears, concerns, reservations that you just never know what they may have. And I also like to ask them kind of the opposite of that, you know, which is tell me about what does a perfect outcome look like for you to this project? And I like to ask that second because I really like to make the fears go away and then get them thinking more positively about what a great outcome looks like. But those are two questions I think are are great to ask as a salesperson to understand where your prospects are on both ends of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

It's terrific. And also could bring up uh what I call preemptive or preempting an objection. It could bring up an objection before the objection even happens. Like, well, what would make this project great is if it's under 20,000, or you know, or I'm worried about like they say all of a sudden now you've got all this information that you can use rather than trying to guess. So good, really, that's really good stuff. So I would answer Brian. My discovery was more along the line of what you said before, Tony, is before you can charm them, you first have to disarm them. I always wanted to lower the resistance, the sales resistance in the house, because that's what they're they're expecting a bad experience, they're expecting the salesperson to come in and rip them off. They're not expecting a good experience. So I I called it the uh being the anti-sales person. Deliver an experience that they were not expecting. And I would simply walk in, and of course, most reps walk in and they do 10 or 15 minutes of small talk and the weather and the traffic and all the stuff that gets everyone to roll their eyes. And I would simply say, Hey, listen, before we get into anything, I just want to let you know I am not gonna be here for three hours giving you a dog and pony sales show. I'm just gonna find out what you need, answer your questions, and we'll go from there. How does that sound? It would be amazing because when I say I'm not gonna do this, and then I would say, This is your appointment, it's not mine. So tell me how I can help you. And it would just, you just see their they're like their shoulders went, Oh, thank goodness, because the other guy came in here, he was here for three and a half hours, he was jumping on his windows, he was doing all these stupid things. And I'm like, I'm not gonna do any of that. So how can I help you? And it and it was a disarming thing. So not really a discovery question, but I was about disarming first before I got to the discovery.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

So that's what I would do. So anyway, well, this has been terrific, Tony. I really appreciate you being on. You you you've dropped some really golden nuggets here. And let's let me ask you one final question before I ask out how people can find you. If I'm a home improvement company right now, I I really want to think about getting into canvassing or getting into event marketing. Besides calling you, what would be the first thing I should do? Would you recommend something I should do first?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Well, I mean, if if you have, you know, a peer in your network, right? You you have someone that's in a franchise network or something at someone you've met at a conference or a seminar, I would find somebody in your industry that's already doing it. You know, Mello talks about that as well, too. I'd, you know, uh, what can I do to to you know, stop out, visit your organization? What can I do to reciprocate the fact that I'd love to see what it is that you've built there? Uh, if you know of a great program, go visit it. Try to get with your peers first. You know, but at the end of the day, these programs are about the leaders, you know, the speed of the captain, the speed of the crew. Everything rises and falls on leadership, you know, on canvassing programs and event marketing programs. You have to have great leaders, people that they really get the process and they they're able to recruit people that are good fits for the program and work with them to master the process.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Great stuff, great, great advice. And and I've seen, you know, I've been doing this now for 30 years, you know, it's a really tight-knit community. I th I I I I I think a lot of the contractors out there really want to help their peers, you know, obviously if it's not a direct competitor, but you know, you're in Columbus and you meet someone in Florida and he's having trouble, you're gonna you're gonna want to, you know, have a conversation. And I don't think you would have a problem helping him with something or pointing him in the right direction. And I've seen that in this industry. So that's one of the really good things about the industry is especially with a lot of the uh the functions and the conferences and the events that are happening, that's where you should go. Like you got to get out there and see what everyone else is doing. It's a small investment in your company to do that. So that's that's what I would tell a a contractor is get out there.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. I mean, yeah, like I said, the our our our event, League Gen Expo, has become kind of a community, people stay in touch all year. And there's other events that foster that same kind of you know uh opportunity. So I think you gotta get out there, connect with people are doing what you're doing every day. You know, I I jokingly and affectionately say, you know, it's the island of misfit toys.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

You gotta go find some other misfit toys. Exactly. I love that. All right, Tony. Well, for the folks that are listening and they need some help, how can they contact you? Where do they go?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

So the name's T-O-N-Y-H-O-T-Y. You can go to tonyhody.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, you know, all he's everywhere, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

He's everywhere. So follow his stuff. It's fun. All right, so it's TonyHoe.com. Tony, I want to thank you for being here. This was awesome. We can talk for another hour, but unfortunately we can't. And I got to move along to get to the next podcast. But I want to thank you for being here. And I want to thank everyone out there for listening to this episode of Selling in the Dwelling. Don't forget it's www.tonyhoe.com. If you want to visit and uh pick Tony's brain, he can help you for sure get more leads for your business. Also, don't forget paradinebendo.com forward slash dwelling, my title sponsor. They are awesome. Check them out the next time you're in front of your computer. That's it for us, over everyone. Take care from Selling in the Dwelling. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Selling in the Dwelling!